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-   -   Abilities that don't make since. (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=271520)

Archived Post 05-23-2012 07:08 AM

Abilities that don't make since.
 
This is something the DEVs should pay attention to.


1) A gas that kills the crew? Really? Who thought of that one? They must not know "jack" about space. In space you are in an airtight ship, how could you die from a gas outside your ship?

2) Escorts outruning torpedos? How can a ship at impulse outrun a weapon moving at low warp? Why are escorts able to fly in reverse faster than some ships moving forward. I didn't see forward facing impulse engine in the ship scimatics.

3) Why is the smallest ships flying with the heaviest weapons, yet flying like a fighter craft as if the are carring nothing? In real life, Bombers and spector guships carry the heaviest weapons of the sky and the are not that fast and manuverable as fighters. How many fighter jets you know carry 105 Howitzers or Nuke cruise missiles? In the sea, the Destroyers and Frigates don't carry the largest guns or biggest missiles. They are made for speed but they give up armor and weaponry to do so. They are made to protect the larger slow carriers that don't carry heavy guns or major missles. In this game, what is the purpose of the escort? Is it to destroy everything and get away with it? Is to be totally untouchable in right players hands?

4) Fighter that have hit point like ship? Why are the Advance versions of fighters that Klingons have now that are as tough as Birds of Prey? Its bad enough that fighters take your attention away from the player but do they have to be as tough as the player?

5) A Klingon teleporting spotainiously around in diffentent sides of an opponent? That doesn't sound like Human or Klingon technology. I don't think thats how transwayp is supposed to work. You have to time travel like a Q to instantaniously move all over tha map or around a person different times.

Archived Post 05-23-2012 07:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra (Post 4227946)
This is something the DEVs should pay attention to.


1) A gas that kills the crew? Really? Who thought of that one? They must not know "jack" about space. In space you are in an airtight ship, how could you die from a gas outside your ship?

2) Escorts outruning torpedos? How can a ship at impulse outrun a weapon moving at low warp? Why are escorts able to fly in reverse faster than some ships moving forward. I didn't see forward facing impulse engine in the ship scimatics.

3) Why is the smallest ships flying with the heaviest weapons, yet flying like a fighter craft as if the are carring nothing? In real life, Bombers and spector guships carry the heaviest weapons of the sky and the are not that fast and manuverable as fighters. How many fighter jets you know carry 105 Howitzers or Nuke cruise missiles? In the sea, the Destroyers and Frigates don't carry the largest guns or biggest missiles. They are made for speed but they give up armor and weaponry to do so. They are made to protect the larger slow carriers that don't carry heavy guns or major missles. In this game, what is the purpose of the escort? Is it to destroy everything and get away with it? Is to be totally untouchable in right players hands?

4) Fighter that have hit point like ship? Why are the Advance versions of fighters that Klingons have now that are as tough as Birds of Prey? Its bad enough that fighters take your attention away from the player but do they have to be as tough as the player?

5) A Klingon teleporting spotainiously around in diffentent sides of an opponent? That doesn't sound like Human or Klingon technology. I don't think thats how transwayp is supposed to work. You have to time travel like a Q to instantaniously move all over tha map or around a person different times.


I think you need to be a little more open minded to things in the game/scifi movie. It's a fictional universe after all. Now if i do have to defend this with canon:

1) We are talking about a fictional universe where there are many materials that don't exactly obey the laws of physics. May i remind you that even though the ship is made of Air-Tight materials, there are windows made out of force-fields which are penetrable by some materials,gasses, etc (The very reason why plasma inflicts direct hull damage even with shields up)

2) Source that torpedoes travel at low warp? As far as i know there is exactly one episode in TNG where an outfitted torpedo case was traveling at warp. In addition: Warp 1 is on theory the speed of light. So whatever low warp it is, we shouldn't be able to see/track the torpedo trajectory if what you stated is true.
To further disprove this point. There are many many engagements in Star Trek series and movies where ships were dodging torpedoes.

3) That's canon: Check USS Defiant. Also a fact is that ships don't take too much weapons space and they are so big mostly because of crew quarters, hangar bays, shuttle bays, etc...
A warship (escort if you prefer) doesn't have these extras, so that it can both have better weaponry and higher maneuverability.

4) Well firstly a BoP isn't a very tough ship if you can hit it. Also even if they have the same hull as a player, they don't have the abilities a player usually has, that literally triple (at least) his survivability.

5) It is year 2409 so basically you can't dismiss the technology. Even when transwarp didn't exist, there were stunts like the Picard Manouver for example. It's not very hard to believe that such ability can exist.

Archived Post 05-23-2012 08:00 AM

Answers to 1, 2, 4, and 5:

It's a video game. Stop trying to integrate gameplay mechanics with the story.

Answer to question 3: The USS Defiant was intentionally designed as a warship, specifically designed for hit and run tactics. It has the strongedt weapons because it was designed to have them. The Escort class wouldn't even exist if not for the Deep Space 9 series laying down this guideline. The reason it turns faster than other ships and can travel in reverse faster is because the ship is significantly smaller than normal ships. The laws of physics still apply when it comes to factoring how much energy is needed to move mass. Larger mass = slower ship.

Archived Post 05-23-2012 08:19 AM

now as far as i can remember torpedo's in star trek are not guided more of a projectile really, with perhaps the one main acception. In the last orignal star trek film, well the thing has got to have a tail pipe. and pop goes a cloaked bird of prey. Thats really the only mention of a guided tropedo i can remember in star trek ( i could have missed something) and if that is the case then its going to be quite easy to avoid an un guided projectile.

In reality not everything in star trek makes sense episodes often tend to contradict each other, as the game very loosly follows the star trek theme its bond to make even less sense.. but it is as it is a game, something to provide an hrs entertainment nothing more

Archived Post 05-23-2012 08:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra (Post 4227946)
This is something the DEVs should pay attention to.


1) A gas that kills the crew? Really? Who thought of that one? They must not know "jack" about space. In space you are in an airtight ship, how could you die from a gas outside your ship?

2) Escorts outruning torpedos? How can a ship at impulse outrun a weapon moving at low warp? Why are escorts able to fly in reverse faster than some ships moving forward. I didn't see forward facing impulse engine in the ship scimatics.

4) Fighter that have hit point like ship? Why are the Advance versions of fighters that Klingons have now that are as tough as Birds of Prey? Its bad enough that fighters take your attention away from the player but do they have to be as tough as the player?

1) Hmm I know what youíre saying, that does seem a little strange, but then again thinking about it i would say . . that while youíre getting hit by the Plasma torpedos or a plasma cloud (Vent warp plasma) that it may not be the actual cloud killing your crew . . but perhaps console blow outs and eps conduits exploding inside the ship as youíre taking the damage thats killing them ??

2) I havenít really encountered this? so i canít help you here. :o

4) According to what iíve encountered so far, it seems to me that itís not so much the fighters have the same hit points as large ships . . but instead move so fast that you miss a lot . . sometimes it takes me a while to destroy one . . but then if iím lucky i can kill one with 2 Ė 3 shots with full phasers ??

Quote:

Originally Posted by DarthRado (Post 4227969)

2) Source that torpedoes travel at low warp? As far as i know there is exactly one episode in TNG where an outfitted torpedo case was traveling at warp. In addition: Warp 1 is on theory the speed of light. So whatever low warp it is, we shouldn't be able to see/track the torpedo trajectory if what you stated is true.
To further disprove this point. There are many many engagements in Star Trek series and movies where ships were dodging torpedoes.

Photon torpedoes do not have a warp drive, but they do have something called a "sustainer engine" that allows them to keep travelling at warp speed if launched from a starship that is already traveling at warp.;)

Archived Post 05-23-2012 08:48 AM

Quote:

1) A gas that kills the crew? Really? Who thought of that one? They must not know "jack" about space. In space you are in an airtight ship, how could you die from a gas outside your ship?
1) Air tight until you start taking Damage of course.

Quote:

3) Why is the smallest ships flying with the heaviest weapons, yet flying like a fighter craft as if the are carring nothing? In real life, Bombers and spector guships carry the heaviest weapons of the sky and the are not that fast and manuverable as fighters. How many fighter jets you know carry 105 Howitzers or Nuke cruise missiles? In the sea, the Destroyers and Frigates don't carry the largest guns or biggest missiles. They are made for speed but they give up armor and weaponry to do so. They are made to protect the larger slow carriers that don't carry heavy guns or major missles. In this game, what is the purpose of the escort? Is it to destroy everything and get away with it? Is to be totally untouchable in right players hands
3) Theres a thing on our planet called Gravity, in space, unless your close to a sun, or in orbit of a planet, there isnt much. Also this is based VERY far in the future, heavy weapons physically are probably the same as Lighter weapons or not much bigger, they are just Heavy due to the Energy Drain it takes to fire them.

if your asking these things, your in the wrong game

Archived Post 05-23-2012 09:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra (Post 4227946)
1) A gas that kills the crew? Really? Who thought of that one? They must not know "jack" about space. In space you are in an airtight ship, how could you die from a gas outside your ship?

OK what gas? There is no gas weapons in space, I think there is a Science Power or two that is a gas based weapon.

But your talking about Warp Plasma and Theta Radiation aren't you, neither of them are gases. Warp Plasma, is among other things really hot, Super Heated Plasma isn't a Science Fiction concept here it's a fact. Your ejecting a fire into space so hot it can keep burning in cold vacuum and you think flying through this stuff should have no effect? Theta Radiation is well Radiation, it's Canon that strong sources of Radiation Penetrate the Hull. The Enterprise D nearly got taken out by a busted garbage scowl that was simply super radioactive.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra (Post 4227946)
2) Escorts outruning torpedos? How can a ship at impulse outrun a weapon moving at low warp? Why are escorts able to fly in reverse faster than some ships moving forward. I didn't see forward facing impulse engine in the ship scimatics.

I've never seen an Escort fly faster in reverse than any ships forward speed. As for out running torpedoes, the way the game works only one type of Torpedo can be out run. High Yield destructable torpedoes like the High Yield Plasma. If a Photon or Quantum don't miss they will hit you eventually. Sometimes you can out run the graphic but not the damage.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra (Post 4227946)
3) Why is the smallest ships flying with the heaviest weapons, yet flying like a fighter craft as if the are carring nothing? In real life, Bombers and spector guships carry the heaviest weapons of the sky and the are not that fast and manuverable as fighters. How many fighter jets you know carry 105 Howitzers or Nuke cruise missiles? In the sea, the Destroyers and Frigates don't carry the largest guns or biggest missiles. They are made for speed but they give up armor and weaponry to do so. They are made to protect the larger slow carriers that don't carry heavy guns or major missles. In this game, what is the purpose of the escort? Is it to destroy everything and get away with it? Is to be totally untouchable in right players hands?

This one can be answered by saying that quite simply Escorts are more cramped, no Sci labs, no 1000 cabins, people probably bunk 3 or 4 guys in a tiny room, where as on a Galaxy every one of those 1000 crew members has a cabin. You'd think the Galaxy has space for 2000 cabins on it off the top of my head, and it can carry nearly 6000 people if needed to.

Other than the Defiant, most of the Escorts are actually quite large vessels, usually at least 3/4 of a Sovereign and they have only 150 people compared to the 750 on the Sovereign. More people means more space, more food replicators, larger Med bays, more social areas etc. I think the Sovereign while being leaner than the Galaxy still had a Ten Forward, Holodecks, Sci Labs, etc. It may not have had schools and daycare along with families but I argue it would be a pretty luxurious ride. Compared to the smaller, cramped Escorts.

You asked how many Fighters carry Nukes? Well I know the F22 Raptor one of the most maneuverable and fastest fighters in the world can carry nukes so what does that say?

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra (Post 4227946)
4) Fighter that have hit point like ship? Why are the Advance versions of fighters that Klingons have now that are as tough as Birds of Prey? Its bad enough that fighters take your attention away from the player but do they have to be as tough as the player?

Not sure how to answer this one as I've never seen a fighters hull and shield strength. I will say even advanced fighters go pop in 1 or 2 shots if you can hit them so I'm not sure what's going on here.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra (Post 4227946)
5) A Klingon teleporting spotainiously around in diffentent sides of an opponent? That doesn't sound like Human or Klingon technology. I don't think thats how transwayp is supposed to work. You have to time travel like a Q to instantaniously move all over tha map or around a person different times.

The Subspace Jump console, why should it sound like Human Technology when the Klingons have it? It's not Transwarp it's a short jump through Subspace.

Like all things Klingon it will eventually be given to the Federation.

And the answer to all of these questions is it's a game and it's meant to be fun. It also has some concept of the trinity of Tank Healer and DPS.

Archived Post 05-23-2012 09:41 AM

More importantly, why are you sitting inside dressed like you are about to rob a bank?

Archived Post 05-23-2012 09:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Alexin_Cobra (Post 4227946)
This is something the DEVs should pay attention to.


1) A gas that kills the crew? Really? Who thought of that one? They must not know "jack" about space. In space you are in an airtight ship, how could you die from a gas outside your ship?

2) Escorts outruning torpedos? How can a ship at impulse outrun a weapon moving at low warp? Why are escorts able to fly in reverse faster than some ships moving forward. I didn't see forward facing impulse engine in the ship scimatics.

3) Why is the smallest ships flying with the heaviest weapons, yet flying like a fighter craft as if the are carring nothing? In real life, Bombers and spector guships carry the heaviest weapons of the sky and the are not that fast and manuverable as fighters. How many fighter jets you know carry 105 Howitzers or Nuke cruise missiles? In the sea, the Destroyers and Frigates don't carry the largest guns or biggest missiles. They are made for speed but they give up armor and weaponry to do so. They are made to protect the larger slow carriers that don't carry heavy guns or major missles. In this game, what is the purpose of the escort? Is it to destroy everything and get away with it? Is to be totally untouchable in right players hands?

4) Fighter that have hit point like ship? Why are the Advance versions of fighters that Klingons have now that are as tough as Birds of Prey? Its bad enough that fighters take your attention away from the player but do they have to be as tough as the player?

5) A Klingon teleporting spotainiously around in diffentent sides of an opponent? That doesn't sound like Human or Klingon technology. I don't think thats how transwayp is supposed to work. You have to time travel like a Q to instantaniously move all over tha map or around a person different times.

1) It is not GAS it is an area of Radiation. Apparently this radiation interferes with the operations of the Shield Emitters and if enough of it gets into the Hull it begins to irradiate the crew which leads to their injury if not death. (Technically they are supposed to be "Injured" not "Dead")

2) A. Um... Who says that Torps are moving at Low Warp? That would not even make sense seems how it should be relatively impossible to hit anything moving at those speeds and they would not be able to turn. It is fully conceivable that the BIG and powerful engines of a ship could out match the small ones of a Torp and that the Torp will run out of fuel before the ship does. However, these Torps really ought to track their target for a longer time period than they do.

B. Besides a difference in Mass I am uncertain... Just like I am uncertain why it is that moving in reverse drains power from my ship mysteriously.

3) This is Space my friend... No Gravity, No Air Resistance, No Water Resistance. There is nothing to prevent any ship from being armed to the teeth and still moving around well. Escorts are built around their guns like the A-10 is. They do not suffer performance issues because they have relatively small Mass compared to other ships. The lower the Mass and the higher the Engine output the Faster and more Nimble you can be.

4) ... Do you mean the Birds of Prey the Carriers launch or are you talking about To'Duj? Because the prior... IS a BoP... The Latter is NOT as tough as an end game BoP fitted even remotely well. As for the Kar'Fi's super Frigates... Weeelll... I dunno... Maybe their Hull is partially Neutronium?

5) Ever seen the Picard Maneuver? If they are doing what they say they are then they are warping a very tiny distance. This should mean that they push and pull space around them suddenly to move themselves into a better position. They would seem to "Disappear" because light cannot bounce off of them while they warp. The better question is: If they can warp like this during combat why are we restricted from warping out in general?

Archived Post 05-23-2012 10:18 AM

In Canon Terms a Torp moves ONLY at impulse speed and fires only at impulse speeds (exception its possible to fire a torp at warp but only BEHIND you)

Plasma is not a gas its a plasma (which as most high school teachers can tell you means half way between two states )

I out run torpedo fire in my Galaxy (any ship can do it )
hit Evasive manuvers and TURN sharply

In one episode of Voyager (sorry can't remember which one) I believe a ships phaser bank is dismounted and beamed down to a planet
its not much bigger than a washing machine


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