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-   -   PvP Idea: Dueling Incentive Debuff (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=272916)

Archived Post 06-06-2012 09:08 AM

PvP Idea: Dueling Incentive Debuff
 
So, I'm not really that invested in PvP, I generally do not enjoy it and could take it or leave it, but... I had an idea and I figured I'd post it.

The thing that has always driven me away from PvP is getting ganged up on. It would just happen to me constantly when I did PvP... I couldn't tell if I was being targeted specifically, every time, or if it was simply a matter of the opposing team being organized such that they focus fired each of their opponents in turn, all five on one, and then moved on in cycle to another opponent while that one was sent to respawn limbo.

What if there was an incentive that encouraged PvP opponents to target people who target them? Here's my thought: if you fire weapons in a PvP and you aren't targeting another player who has you as their primary target, you get a short duration debuff (damage resistance, maybe). This would discourage the whole getting constantly ganged up on phenomena that drives me (and I would guess, quite a number of others) away. Furthermore, it creates a situation where you have a vested interest in matching up with one other specific opponent, mutually, so that you both avoid the debuff. The buff wouldn't stack and would go away very quickly if you stopped firing on PvPers who weren't targeting you. It wouldn't factor into PvE combat at all, whether in the main game or with respect to NPCs in PvP maps.

Good idea? Bad idea? Doesn't address any actual problem? I'm not sure. I will say that my intuition tells me there's a major flaw with this idea, but I can't think of one.

Archived Post 06-06-2012 09:22 AM

while i agree it sux to be ganged up on....... it would defeat the purpose of team pvp is this were to be implemented........ u might as well just get rid of the 5v5 que and install a 1v1 que.........

Archived Post 06-06-2012 09:26 AM

Chances are it wouldn't address the problem that much. The people who focus fire and blow ships up in a few seconds are extremely refined machines and they'll blow you up in... two more seconds. Or worse, you'll see your team slaughtered around you while you wittle away at a shield facing, and just as you get it down, you're the last one standing and the only remaining target.

The only real way to combat teamwork is with teamwork of your own, but it's a difficult situation. You'll get your ragtag team to follow a few commands and orders, but the other teams have been doing it for years and are just inherently better at the game and at countering the counters others throw at them.

In short, a damage resistance debuff probably wouldn't help much to be honest.

Archived Post 06-06-2012 12:42 PM

[quote]
Quote:

Originally Posted by Pi-3Orionis
The thing that has always driven me away from PvP is getting ganged up on. It would just happen to me constantly when I did PvP... I couldn't tell if I was being targeted specifically, every time, or if it was simply a matter of the opposing team being organized such that they focus fired each of their opponents in turn, all five on one, and then moved on in cycle to another opponent while that one was sent to respawn limbo.

Its teamwork on the oppossing teams part. Most Premades use it and many KDF PuGs use it as well.
A dueling system would be interesting (1 vs 1) que-ups, but in a an open queing system focus fire happens.

Archived Post 06-06-2012 12:57 PM

Cue auxiliary based healers never targeting anything but friendlies and minespam in arena matrches to utilise constant DR vs everything.

I don't think that is a good idea. For one, you would be discouraging coordination, which seems counter-intuitive to me. For another, for any such damage reduction boost to be signifigant enough as to be an effective deterrant to a second or third or fourth person focusing on you it would need to be very big indeed (otherwise it would make no difference whatsoever), which would only worsen the problem I stated above.

Can you FAW without a target? Any cruiser could than just wallow around fawing and not actually targeting anything (or chosing targets based upon whomever is not shooting at them)

Archived Post 06-06-2012 01:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan_Trainor
Cue auxiliary based healers never targeting anything but friendlies and minespam in arena matrches to utilise constant DR vs everything.

"DR vs everything?" I'm not entirely sure what you mean -- or maybe you don't understand what I mean. And minespam is of severely limited utility. It's not even that useful (not merely spamming them anyway) in PvE, I have a hard time believing that would happen in PvP. Because it would be happening now.

Quote:

For one, you would be discouraging coordination, which seems counter-intuitive to me.
I disagree. If you have to leverage your assets by figuring out which person on your team is the best counter for a specific opponent on the opposite team, that's a fair bit of coordination right there. What this discourages is one specific type of coordination, 5-to-1 targeting. And it doesn't prevent people from doing it still, it just means they need to take on a weakness to engage in the behavior. 5-to-1 gangups are less about strategy and real coordination, and more about trigger finger and DPS. It's four people doing "attack his target" while targeted on the team leader.

Quote:

For another, for any such damage reduction boost to be signifigant enough as to be an effective deterrant to a second or third or fourth person focusing on you it would need to be very big indeed (otherwise it would make no difference whatsoever), which would only worsen the problem I stated above.
Worsen which problem, exactly?

Quote:

Can you FAW without a target? Any cruiser could than just wallow around fawing and not actually targeting anything (or chosing targets based upon whomever is not shooting at them)
Nobody is going to be taking down opponents with FAW. Because if that were possible... again... everyone would have it in PvP now.

Archived Post 06-06-2012 01:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pi-3Orionis
"DR vs everything?" I'm not entirely sure what you mean -- or maybe you don't understand what I mean. And minespam is of severely limited utility. It's not even that useful (not merely spamming them anyway) in PvE, I have a hard time believing that would happen in PvP. Because it would be happening now.
I disagree. If you have to leverage your assets by figuring out which person on your team is the best counter for a specific opponent on the opposite team, that's a fair bit of coordination right there. What this discourages is one specific type of coordination, 5-to-1 targeting. And it doesn't prevent people from doing it still, it just means they need to take on a weakness to engage in the behavior.
Nobody is going to be taking down opponents with FAW. Because if that were possible... again... everyone would have it in PvP now.

What I mean is, you could have a healer ship not targeting any specific enemy, thereby acquiring your defensive buff to anybody shooting at them, by virtue of the healer not targeting anybody that might be shooting at them.
The point is nothing to do with the usefulness of minespam.
Fair point about the different types of coordiantion, but the mast basic form of teamwork is focus fire, easily transmitted to pug's via a simple keybind. Without that, you're going to hav people floating aroun for 10 mins at the start of each match deciding who is going to be dueling whom in this 5 vs 5, team match. Like I said, totally counter-intuitive.
The point about FAW is not to do with it's effectivity, that is besides the point. Cruisers fo bruiser type dps, they kill very little in pvp by virtue of their own dps. The point is about them not specifically targeting anybody (or chosing target on the basis of that target shooting somebody other than self) to gain defensive buffs vs anybody trying to shoot at them.

Archived Post 06-06-2012 01:34 PM

There is no defensive buff in what I'm proposing. There is a debuff for targeting another PvPer who is not targeting you -- or more accurately, the way I phrased it, firing a weapon only gives you a debuff if your primary target, isn't also targeting you.

A support ship will not be any intrinsically more or less vulnerable, or powerful.

If you do not target somebody, you are not going to do significant damage to them. Area affect attacks simply do not put out enough DPS, to rely on them, and that healer isn't going to be doing much more than minor damage to anybody, even with the debuff in effect. And anyway, the best counter to that is to not target the healer and only attack him with area attacks. It's a two way street.

People are not gaining buffs. You can only earn a debuff in what I'm proposing.

Archived Post 06-06-2012 01:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pi-3Orionis
There is no defensive buff in what I'm proposing. There is a debuff for targeting another PvPer who is not targeting you -- or more accurately, the way I phrased it, firing a weapon only gives you a debuff if your primary target, isn't also targeting you.

A support ship will not be any intrinsically more or less vulnerable, or powerful.

If you do not target somebody, you are not going to do significant damage to them. Area affect attacks simply do not put out enough DPS, to rely on them, and that healer isn't going to be doing much more than minor damage to anybody, even with the debuff in effect. And anyway, the best counter to that is to not target the healer and only attack him with area attacks. It's a two way street.

People are not gaining buffs. You can only earn a debuff in what I'm proposing.

OK, so people aren't gaining buffs, but theoretically an entire team gets a damage debuff? Same difference really, in my view you are punishing the most basic form of coordination.
I've said it before and I'll say it again, counter-intuitive.

Archived Post 06-06-2012 01:44 PM

I don't know. I feel like dueling is for the private queues.

But hey, maybe they'll come up with some P2W tanking console that follows this concept. There are obviously enough people who think they should be able to enter a multiplayer queue but not have to face more than one person at a time.


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