The unofficial "you are ignoring our requests" thread.
Sorry to have to make this thread, but it seems official. Whatever updates are being made to the Foundry are ignoring our obvious requests, just as assets to the foundry are ignoring our obvious asset requests.
Example: We've been asking for ages for some kind of costume to give to dialogues, like a simple generic Federation logo when interacting with a computer. Now, we are given default "Talk to X" when attempting to disguise it. Want to scan the ship. Now, you need to "Talk to Ship."
That is really all we've been asking for, to interact with a console and have something console like appear as the dialogue. This update makes that even more difficult. What gives?
I'm really starting to feel like all of our feedback takes a backseat to:
A. Whatever some mysterious foundry team develops that might one day be compatible with STO.
B. The personal whims of someone who does not listen to our requests.
I don't mean to sound negative, but I'm not sure that anyone is listening here. For X sake, give us the ability to use a generic costume for a dialogue with a computer console. That is all we've been asking for, not some crazy talk to object stuff. Just give us a costume with a federation logo. That is all that we need.
Just a way to talk to a console and have it be a console, not some BO or npc. Why is that so hard to understand.
Ex: I want to use my tricorder. I don't need my BO to translate it for me.
I want to interact with a computer and have it talk to me as a computer.
Why is this so hard, if all that I need is a generic costume to attach to dialogues?
There's a default interact with detail object. It's in the same spot as the default chatbox for an npc contact.
Having a nice costume or using that in an objective would be nice though.
I definitely understand Kirkfat's mounting frustration here. We have posted numerous threads here asking for assets and maps, and when we get new assets and maps, they are largely things nobody asked for. I know of no thread asking for the glass displays or banners from Utopia Planitia. They are cool, and I've already put one in a map in a published mission, but why put in those, that nobody asked for, and not put in props from the TOS maps, which many people have asked for? Along those lines, why do we not have Starfleet Academy? Why do we not have the First City? Why do we not have carpets? Why do we not have a Starfleet captain's chair. I could go on an on.
The answer, I would guess, is that dev time is not being put into making these available for us. Didn't Zero say in the interview on Primetime UGC that it takes something like 4 hours of dev time per map? I would assume it takes some dev time to hook up assets as well. For whatever reason, it seems that devs are not being tasked to do these things. I would hope that maybe Zero will let us in on the reason.
I don't want to be negative either, so I am offering a constructive solution. If, perhaps, the reason dev time is not being spent here is that the Foundry doesn't directly bring in any cash, maybe it is time to start monetizing some parts of the Foundry. I have been resistant to this, but I think there are some unobtrusive ways Cryptic can start making a little cash off the Foundry.
A) Costumes. We LOVE costumes, so make it so that when you purchase a c-store or lobi-crystal costume, it becomes available for you to use in the Foundry. Yes, this would require devs to spend time hooking up costumes in the Foundry, but Cryptic would be making some return off that time investment. I would also hope these would be retroactive for those of us who have made the purchases already.
This should also include ship costumes and the new EVA Suits. I can tell you that I would buy those suits right freakin' now if it meant I could have NPCs wear them in the Foundry.
B) Allow Foundry slot purchases with C-Points in addition to Dilithium. This should be a no-brainer.
C) Put together some map packs from the unused maps and offer them for fairly cheap. Offer a Romulan-themed map pack with more maps from the Featured Episodes, or a Klingon-themed pack with the new First City and the Alpha space map. I'd buy those.
D) Offer a Tholian Pack. Buy the pack, and you can use the ships, ground mobs and the Nukara maps.
The key, in my opinion, is to make sure not to make things more restrictive for people who already use the Foundry, just add new things for those who are willing to put down a little cash. If the money is coming in, you can afford to spend the time improving the Foundry, right?
I've been thinking about this since the new asset list was put out and I've been wondering if the issue is not technical or a lack of dev time, but legal.
We know Cryptic has to go through CBS for a lot of stuff, which is why some ships are not in the game or are only available through lock boxes. Could be possible that Cryptic is restricted from giving us access to certain assets due to either their licence with CBS or someone else.
Sounds strange yes, but when you consider what's in the foundry and what's not is there any other logical reason? Would really like a dev to respond to how things are actually added to Foundry.
I am not a dev for STO obviously, but I am a programmer and understand how this works. Or should I say how it is supposed to work. Back when I was 16, I made a massive mod using the game GTA SA, I now work for a large software company. At this point I must say that GTA is not an MMO so it wasn't patched on a weekly basis or played online so players were able to edited it using a simple script and nothing else. This action was frowned upon by the owners of the game but never enforced. Hacking any MMO will get you banned.
All MMOs work the the same way, you have all the assets inside the hogg files. These are huge files on your HD if you look. When a new ship or character comes out the devs add this to the hogg files in the next patch. Your client only accesses what is needed while you play the game. The server returns the object number of an asset and its location in the game. This code is either raw or encoded text.
The Foundry is a great GUI for making a script which fed back to the server and stored for use by other players. When some one accesses your community mission they get the script that tells your client to display the assets you were allowed to add through the Foundry GUI. Without the GUI you would need to know the asset object number and map coordinates. No such GUI editor existed for GTA so it was similar to programming in machine code known as ASM.
So I imagine adding any asset to Foundry is simply granting us access to the asset.
Legally I cannot speak for CBS or Cryptic or PWE, but in the past many celebrities have sued or tried to sue game and software companies for their image being used in a game. I posted the links before. I don't believe this to be a CBS restriction at all, how can you sue about an asset that is already in use in the game? As far as I know, the only restriction is actor likeness and not ship likeness.
Understanding this you can now see why Kirksplat is a tad bit upset. I thank Cryptic for the ability to use and enjoy playing STO. I thank them for the Foundry GUI because it saves the headache of learning a new scripting language. But it defines mixed emotions when it comes to giving us a crippled editor.
I also think this is not likely to be a legal issue. I suspect that the reason we don't have certain assets or maps is that no one has sat down and hooked them up yet. Why this hasn't been done, I can only speculate...
@Sameriker: You make a good point, though I'm thinking more along the lines of limited use licenses. Remember Cryptic is the second company in on this game, could some of the assets used be from the original developers and that is causing issues? Have they used 3rd party companies as a source for some material? From what I understand the Foundry didn't exist for a while after STO opened, maybe they wouldn't want to change some old contracts?
Even if they're in the game we still have restrictions, like the before mentioned Lock Box ships that can be in the game but CANNOT be straight sold.
If we dismiss legal reasons, then only thing left is technical (I'm ignoring the theory that Cryptic doesn't want us to make better missions then them).
Considering they're just announcing patrols for Foundry mission NPCs now, is it possible the older assets we dont have just wont WORK in the Foundry, and its not just a case of linking the HOGG files to it?
i generally agree with the title of this thread good job op
Guys, there are no legal issues, unless maybe we're talking about brand new assets like a species, ship, or something that CBS has to approve. We've been asking for a transporter pad for a year and a half. That's not exactly an asset that is hard to come by in STO.
It really comes down to a few things. There was a huge vacuum of talent when the original Foundry team moved to NWN. Then the conversion to F2P went in overdrive. Now that we have people on the Foundry (on the STO team) again, they are prioritizing other types of improvements.
And, in my opinion, the "less is more" attitude of our producer is a double-edged sword. On the one hand, she is right that giving us too much might hinder creativity. But, when the requests are very basic, like a transporter, a ceiling, and walls, it's hard to understand.
One possible answer: They don't care about the foundry ion the slightest; that's my take anyhow. The idea that giving us "too much" would hinder our creativity is, frankly, one of the most pathetic and lame excuses I've ever heard.
We have been asking for obvious assets that should have been included from day 1, for current player costumes, a proper way to interact with objects, etc. All very basic stuff and we have been either ignored or met with petulant eye-rolling.
This is deeply frustrating--especially since there is so much effort putting non-sense and cash sinks into the game while ignoring actual content improvements. The foundry could be the great asset that helps mitigate this issue (PWE wants its lock boxes instead of missions) but they won't even meet us a quarter of the way...
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