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-   -   Attack Pattern Delta: Add +XXX% Threat Generation (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=359621)

ussultimatum 08-19-2012 01:14 PM

Attack Pattern Delta: Add +XXX% Threat Generation
 
As there is precedent for a threat generation skill on the ground, Draw Fire, I feel that there should be a similar alternative for space.

Adding threat generation to APD would do the following:

  • Give it an additional reason to be chosen for PvE content over APB, which is currently superior as the target does not need to fire on the player for APB to take effect.
  • Have no negative or positive impact for PvP content. While this is the PvE forum, PvP should always be considered for these kinds of power changes.
  • Keep the ability separate from ship classes, so no one is "forced" to generate threat if they don't want to.
  • Allow any ship the ability to generate threat on demand, but this would most likely be chosen by Cruisers that can spare the tactical slot. This is something that Cruisers in particular lack, and would be a tiny step in giving them more of a reason to be played in PvE content.
  • Benefit teams on the whole as Escorts with APB might often find themselves next to a Cruiser with APD - with both effects stacking for greater overall team damage output and allowing for better synergy.


Thoughts?



EDIT

Some additions:

  • If possible, and makes sense mechanically, perhaps all tiers of APD could be dropped down 1 rank. APD would then be available at Ensign, Lt and Ltc. This would allow a few select non-escorts to take APD 3 as well as helping to utilize the often maligned "Third tac ensign slot" albeit with a price (increased threat).




EDIT: ( Oct 1, 2012)


Borticus was nice enough to take some time to respond to a barrage of questions and jokes in one of the more popular global public channels.



He responded to the idea about adding a threat generation clicky of some kind and mentioned (paraphrasing) that it's an idea he 'could get behind'.



That's not gospel, or written in stone - but it's nice that he might look into it when he has time.





Some things he brought up:


  1. Would it be sufficient for a power like APD's threat generation to only boost the threat if you are already skilled into Threat Control?
  2. He wouldn't want to change a power that others are using for whatever purpose already and have it affect them adversely - so perhaps an entirely new power.




He has a point on number 2, and it's something others have brought up in the thread.





Some ideas and compromises:



Point 1: While I'm perfectly fine with APD only boosting currently skill threat control, I think the appeal of a threat clicky power is that some people like to be able to swap ships and move from a Cruiser one week to an Escort the next and not be saddled with Threat Control if they do.



I'm personally fine if he takes this route, as at least its more than what is available now and I plan for having Threat Control on specific characters anyway.





Point 2: A brand new power would be fine as well, ideally this power would work similar to APD.



The reason I say this is because I don't feel that a Threat Power should be empty, providing only threat and nothing else.



This game does not reward dedicated tanking, and in fact unless you run Elite STFs with friends or fleet mates taking threat control on it's own is already a major liability - almost no one is going to heal you in this game environment and you will end up exploding, often if you play on the typical headless PUG team where there is pretty bad coordination (which is why very few Cruisers actually ever take threat control).




Asking someone to go even a step further and actually use one of their BOFF slots at that point to add threat control and nothing else is unrealistic (and unrewarding).






So taking all of that into consideration here are some ideas:


1)
Add a threat control boost to APD, but this threat control only works if you already have Threat Control skill ranks. Everyone else could continue to use APD as they do now, and with no ranks in Threat Control skill they would not incur added threat.

2)
Add a free, Captain threat boost clicky power (to all captain types) that they would gain at level X. This is a free power, does not cost a BOFF slot, is available to all and only does one thing: provides a short duration burst of threat boost to your powers /weapons and nothing more. The power is devoid of other buffs.


3)
Create a new threat control power for 1 or more disciplines. Thematically threat control in this game is linked to Tactical, so if only one discipline is chosen it would likely end up here. On the other hand, adding 3 powers total, one to each discipline would be interesting and would let a variety of ships (especially cruisers) function as threat holding tanks (this would especially benefit Cruisers that are low on tactical slots but quite clearly have the ability to soak damage such as the RALH Negh'var, the Galaxy-R, the Star Cruiser, etc.)


If option 3 is chosen, I think the power(s) should provide 1 or more benefits to the "tank" or their team, and not be an "empty" power that basically requires you to be a martyr for the sheer sake of it.

For me, a straight clone of APD with +500% threat control would more than suffice, calling it "Attack Pattern Kappa" or similar. I'm not sure what Bort's opinion of that is and he might have something more creative in mind. (Borticus' personal contribution was "Attack Pattern: Shoot me!!?"
;))


I also think that if #3 is chosen, that the T1 of the skill should be ensign level.




Personally, I'm most in favor of option #1 or option #3.

shimmerless 08-19-2012 01:31 PM

+1, great idea and it works well with APD's resist component.

cmdrskyfaller 08-19-2012 02:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ussultimatum (Post 5355091)
As there is precedent for a threat generation skill on the ground, Draw Fire, I feel that there should be a similar alternative for space.

Adding threat generation to APD would do the following:

  • Give it an additional reason to be chosen for PvE content over APB, which is currently superior as the target does not need to fire on the player for APB to take effect.
  • Have no negative or positive impact for PvP content. While this is the PvE forums, PvP should always be considered for these kinds of power changes.
  • Keep the ability separate from ship classes, so no one is "forced" to generate threat if they don't want to.
  • Allow any ship the ability to generate threat on demand, but this would most likely be chosen by Cruisers that can spare the tactical slot. This is something that Cruisers in particular lack, and would be a tiny step in giving them more of a reason to be played in PvE content.
  • Benefit teams on the whole as Escorts with APB might often find themselves next to a Cruiser with APD - with both effects stacking for greater overall team damage output and allowing for better synergy.


Thoughts?

Good idea. I'd also scale the threat generation to match threat control skill points. More threat control, the more hate APD would pull.


I would also add this feature to Feedback pulse. If player has 0 threat control then it generates 0 threat. If player has 9 threat control then each pulse would generate high hate.

dood98998 08-19-2012 07:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller (Post 5355881)
Good idea. I'd also scale the threat generation to match threat control skill points. More threat control, the more hate APD would pull.


I would also add this feature to Feedback pulse. If player has 0 threat control then it generates 0 threat. If player has 9 threat control then each pulse would generate high hate.

+1
Also, great sig :D

ssargon 08-19-2012 09:51 PM

Can't APD be cast on allies as well? Seems you could use an Escort's high Tac slots to designate an ally with a larger TC boost, too.

ussultimatum 08-19-2012 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ssargon (Post 5360171)
Can't APD be cast on allies as well? Seems you could use an Escort's high Tac slots to designate an ally with a larger TC boost, too.

I think I would propose that the threat generation can only be granted to the player that activates the power.

This would be to prevent griefing, or unwittingly getting an ally killed as they suddenly have a huge amount of threat generation added to them.

dood98998 08-19-2012 10:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ussultimatum (Post 5360321)
I think I would propose that the threat generation can only be granted to the player that activates the power.

This would be to prevent griefing, or unwittingly getting an ally killed as they suddenly have a huge amount of threat generation added to them.

Yes, but if the amount of threat generated is porportional to points in tc, then escorts with 0 tc couldn't be trolled.

ssargon 08-19-2012 10:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dood98998 (Post 5360421)
Yes, but if the amount of threat generated is porportional to points in tc, then escorts with 0 tc couldn't be trolled.

Exactly; on anyone not specced for TC, it would be nothing but a buff. Also it would help the freighter in NWS more than hurting it, unless of course, Cryptic cranked up its own TC rating.

ussultimatum 08-19-2012 11:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dood98998 (Post 5360421)
Yes, but if the amount of threat generated is porportional to points in tc, then escorts with 0 tc couldn't be trolled.


I think that would be stretching the limit of what is most likely possible.

While I, obviously, do not know - I suspect that Player A's BOFF ability will be unable to generate a different effect based on Player B's skill level.


I'm not opposed to it, but it seems quite unrealistic.

eradicator84 08-19-2012 11:43 PM

Ooh, nice idea. Having tc applied to the caster should be ok too. Like applying apd to a freighter to buff its defences, and makes you more of a priority target over the freighter which helps it more.

To yourself a threat buff, maybe to others a threat debuff? (along with current benefits)

Whoah, now we're talking about threat control as an actual game mechanic that can be used tactically.


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