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-   -   Suggested Change for RCS Consoles (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=373921)

aethon3050 08-31-2012 11:15 PM

Suggested Change for RCS Consoles
 
Suggestion: Change the bonus of RCS consoles to give a specific increase to base turn rate, regardless of the existing turn rate the ship has. For example, +1 Turn Rate, so a Galaxy would end up with a base turn rate of 7 instead of 6 if equipped with one such console, whereas an escort with 16 turn rate would only end up with 17.

Reason: Escorts don't need the help turning; cruisers do. The current implementation of the RCS console makes them useless to the ships that really need them, and extremely potent on the ships that can get by just fine without them.

Examples:
Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI (+35% Flight Turn Rate)
The present effects of the console are as follows:
Ship 1 - Galaxy, base turn rate of 6. With the above console, this increases to 8.1
Ship 2 - Prometheus, base turn rate of 15. With the same console, it becomes 20.25.

So, while the escort gets more than a 5 point increase in turn speed, the ship that really needs help turning only gets 2.1. Now, here's that same example, but with a fixed turn rate increase, including a somewhat-random number:

Hypothetical Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI (+3 Base Turn Rate)
Effects:
Ship 1 - Galaxy, base turn of 6, which becomes 9.
Ship 2 - Prometheus, base turn of 15, which becomes 18.

In this case, the ship that needs the most help turning actually benefits the most from equipping this module. The escort, on the other hand, doesn't exactly need help turning, but can still equip one if the player so chooses.

Anyway, just a thought, and please keep in mind that I'm not saying it should be +3 for the Mk XI blue console; that's just a number I made up for the example. I just thought the percentage value on these consoles seemed sort of counterproductive, but I'd like to know if I'm the only one who thinks this would be a worthwhile change.

travelingmaster 08-31-2012 11:49 PM

Cruisers don't need RCS consoles to turn. Use reverse thrust, aux to inertial dampeners, high engine power, evasive maneuvers, etc. If you need to turn more than that, you're doing something wrong. Besides, the slow turning rate is one of the 'weaknesses' of the cruisers, and should remain one.

aethon3050 09-01-2012 01:43 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by travelingmaster (Post 5545911)
Cruisers don't need RCS consoles to turn. Use reverse thrust, aux to inertial dampeners, high engine power, evasive maneuvers, etc. If you need to turn more than that, you're doing something wrong. Besides, the slow turning rate is one of the 'weaknesses' of the cruisers, and should remain one.

While I agree (and use) the tactics you mentioned (and more), this thread isn't about cruisers; it's about a proposed change to the RCS Accelerator console.

It's also not about what is absolutely necessary; it's about optimizing the ship to suit the player's preference. After all, one could argue that escorts don't need consoles to do decent DPS, and science ships don't really need science consoles, since most of their power-increasing skills are on the skillsheet, not the ship itself...but we want to use consoles because they increase our capabilities; if they don't work, why do they exist? The RCS console is, in the opinion of every player I've spoken to about it, giving a weaker bonus to the ships that could benefit from it the most, while giving a very strong bonus to ships that don't need it...thus the reason I started the topic.

elandarksky 09-01-2012 01:47 AM

I think what your asking, would be like asking if the console that boosts shield capacity would be a set number so it would benefit escorts more thus making escorts tougher,

Cruisers are ment to be bulky and slow turning, if your play style is to be quick turning, then you need to modify your play style rather than the cruiser istelf ^^

momaw 09-01-2012 02:07 AM

I support what the original poster is saying. The point isn't to make cruisers that turn like escorts without cost, it's to make cruisers stop turning like space whales by paying a console slot to do it. If RCS consoles added the proposed ~3 degrees per second to turn rate, a cruiser with all consoles devoted to RCS and maxed out Impulse Thrusters skill would turn about as well as an escort with no bonus and no skill at all. Spending consoles on agility instead of armor is a serious thing. Cost, reward. Right now there is no reason at all to use these consoles on anything BUT escorts, because they're the only ones that will gain a noticeable improvement.

I think cruisers have all the drawback they need due to their having, optimistically, about half the firepower of an escort craft. What exactly are people afraid will happen by letting cruisers point their ship more quickly? They can't use dual cannons; they lack tactical shininess; they are never going to hit the same ridiculous DPS peaks that escorts do.

maddog0000doom 09-01-2012 02:19 AM

personly id rather they get rid of the console and just buff all ship turn rate if every ship gets a boost then escorts are not loosing out they will still turn alot faster but cruisers will be more fun to play everyone wins

why crytic thinks its fun to play the ultra slow turn ships is beyond me its boring.

before anyone start trolling saying well fly a escort then if u want to turn fast. i do i have 7 toons i play alot most are in different ships the rest are for diltium farming.

lostusthorn 09-01-2012 03:08 AM

Yes, this is a pretty old idea and i still agree with it.
But so far no dev ever even commented on it.

yreodred 09-01-2012 03:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by aethon3050 (Post 5545631)
Suggestion: Change the bonus of RCS consoles to give a specific increase to base turn rate, regardless of the existing turn rate the ship has. For example, +1 Turn Rate, so a Galaxy would end up with a base turn rate of 7 instead of 6 if equipped with one such console, whereas an escort with 16 turn rate would only end up with 17.

Reason: Escorts don't need the help turning; cruisers do. The current implementation of the RCS console makes them useless to the ships that really need them, and extremely potent on the ships that can get by just fine without them.

Examples:
Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI (+35% Flight Turn Rate)
The present effects of the console are as follows:
Ship 1 - Galaxy, base turn rate of 6. With the above console, this increases to 8.1
Ship 2 - Prometheus, base turn rate of 15. With the same console, it becomes 20.25.

So, while the escort gets more than a 5 point increase in turn speed, the ship that really needs help turning only gets 2.1. Now, here's that same example, but with a fixed turn rate increase, including a somewhat-random number:

Hypothetical Console - Engineering - RCS Accelerator Mk XI (+3 Base Turn Rate)
Effects:
Ship 1 - Galaxy, base turn of 6, which becomes 9.
Ship 2 - Prometheus, base turn of 15, which becomes 18.

In this case, the ship that needs the most help turning actually benefits the most from equipping this module. The escort, on the other hand, doesn't exactly need help turning, but can still equip one if the player so chooses.

Anyway, just a thought, and please keep in mind that I'm not saying it should be +3 for the Mk XI blue console; that's just a number I made up for the example. I just thought the percentage value on these consoles seemed sort of counterproductive, but I'd like to know if I'm the only one who thinks this would be a worthwhile change.

I fully agree!
Sadly the devs seem to be hardcore Escort fans and won't give Cruisers anything like this.
As lostusthorn already said, this kind of idea is pretty old but no Dev has EVER comment it.

If i were the one to decide, cruisers would get the same turnrate as some Science vessels (9-15 degrees per sec.), which would make them much more fun to fly and would give them a much more active role in Combat. But as i already said, the devs are apparently not interested in improving cruisers in that way. They seem to be happy with cruisers being practically static compared to escorts (at least in PvP).
On the other hand i don't see a reason not to improve Cruisers when it comes to PvE.

Your suggestions wouldn't be game breaking but they would enhance the experience when flying Cruiser a lot IMO.


Live long and prosper.

blunted74 09-01-2012 03:55 AM

I think it is fine the way it is. Cruisers are meant to be slow lumbering hulks. That's what balances them.

quiscustodiet 09-01-2012 04:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by elandarksky (Post 5546321)
I think what your asking, would be like asking if the console that boosts shield capacity would be a set number so it would benefit escorts more thus making escorts tougher,

Cruisers are ment to be bulky and slow turning, if your play style is to be quick turning, then you need to modify your play style rather than the cruiser istelf ^^

This.
It's mind-boggling that the CRUZER ONLY crowd would request absolute increases over relative increases. Well, selectively, obviously: can't have absolute increases in areas where it wouldn't benefit the CRUZER ONLY agenda.

Then again, that one learns to expect anything from that crowd.


Quote:

The RCS console is, in the opinion of every player I've spoken to about it, giving a weaker bonus to the ships that could benefit from it the most, while giving a very strong bonus to ships that don't need it...thus the reason I started the topic.
Well, then the players you've spoken to are lacking in the same areas you are. It's not even a question of opinion: it literally gives the same boost to everyone. That's what relative increases do.


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