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-   -   How does the Star Trek Universe manage to not be destroyed? (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=408211)

lonnehart 10-06-2012 07:23 PM

How does the Star Trek Universe manage to not be destroyed?
 
With all the time travelling, dimension shifting, etc.. going on in the Star Trek Universe, how is it still able to exist? Of course I'm keeping in mind that that universe is entirely fictional, but still...

We have time travelling races running amok. The Borg will (if they haven't already) attempt to go into the past to assimilate races... like they tried with Humanity by going back into the past. We have the Devidians going about feeding on humans in the past with no regards as to how the timeline will be affected. Then we have the time wars thing going in since the Enterprise era.

I'm suprised the STU hasn't exploded, imploded, or somehow ended up extruded on some baking pan by now...

hevach 10-06-2012 08:41 PM

Predestination. No matter how badly people screw up the timeline, it's pretty trivial to get it back in line with no visible effect on the future. Actually more to the point, it's not trivial to set it back but you don't actually have to set it back, because you already screwed it up and you're already going to fix it. All the hand wringing is dramatics, the very fact that they're still there to worry about it means they have nothing to worry about - if they did, Kirk's irresponsible use of time machines would have already destroyed at least two universes.

Kirk pulling a scientist out of her field was one thing, but Sisko killed a prominent historical figure, took his place, stammered out his lines from the history books (not knowing how accurate those accounts actually were), and then disappearing did nothing except change the picture in the history books. Oh, and two ships from the future doing spectacular battle in low orbit on the eve of First Contact, and yet not only did nobody remember it (Cochrane may have been dismissed as a drunk, but the other people near the launch site can't be so easily dismissed, and the explosion would have been visible far away - not to mention the reentry as a massive alien ship crashes into Antarctica), but the Vulcan ship that detected the Phoenix failed to notice the much larger and more powerful ship departing under its nose.

Heck, Yesterday's Enterprise: In three different timelines, despite changes massive enough to alter the fundamental nature of the Federation and the political balance of the entire quadrant, the Enterprise-D still managed to find itself in the same place at the same time for the same reason with the same crew and the same people on the bridge (Tasha Yar being the only difference). Also, everything in the mirror universe. No matter how far things in that universe have departed from the prime universe, the same people are in the same ships, usually in the same places doing similar things.

Even most of the things in Q's artificial future came to pass - the Negh'var rolled off the assembly line a few years later, some of the changes made to the Enterprise appeared on Galaxy class ships during the Dominion War, the uniforms appeared in no less than three futures despite multiple massive tinkering with the timeline.

psycoticvulcan 10-06-2012 09:20 PM

Here's how.

lonnehart 10-07-2012 01:58 AM

ugh... it's never easy to wrap my mind around these things. Also.... the Alternate Univeres. According to a documentary called "The Universe", energy transferred from one universe to another will kill the universe the energy is being transferred from (matter and energy are the same thing... matter is just ultrahypermegagigasupercondened energy). So I guess I can assume these alternate universes are really just dimensions of the same universe and....*urk*

*shutdown*
*reboot*
*startup*
*load biological operating system*

Sorry... my brain was becoming overloaded trying to figure this all out...

anazonda 10-07-2012 02:10 AM

Well Q uses this to fix the universe: http://www.cyclelicio.us/wp-content/.../flowchart.jpg

carmenara 10-07-2012 05:51 AM

Not trying to troll, but the reason the STU is still intact in its canon timeline is because lockboxes have not been introduced yet :)

fourthofeleven 10-07-2012 08:26 AM

Well, there's a few factions working to keep things sane and stable - the 29th century Federation timefleet intervenes to keep history on track. The various factions of the Temporal Cold War in Enterprise all work to undo each other's alterations to history, so probably cancel each other out most of the time. The Q and the Organians probably prefer the universe remain mostly the same from day to day, so would probably intervene if things got too out of hand...

And that's just the factions we know about; in the game we have Klingon Intelligence working to contain the Devidian threat on the KDF side, so presumably they keep track of other threats to the timeline as well. One can assume every major faction has some agency looking to keep history on track; nobody in power in the present benefits from the past being rewritten.

marcusdkane 10-07-2012 08:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevach (Post 5977151)
Predestination. No matter how badly people screw up the timeline, it's pretty trivial to get it back in line with no visible effect on the future. Actually more to the point, it's not trivial to set it back but you don't actually have to set it back, because you already screwed it up and you're already going to fix it. All the hand wringing is dramatics, the very fact that they're still there to worry about it means they have nothing to worry about - if they did, Kirk's irresponsible use of time machines would have already destroyed at least two universes.

Exactly

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevach (Post 5977151)
Kirk pulling a scientist out of her field was one thing,

Perhaps she was fated to step in front of a bus the week after, so her temporal relocation would have had no impact on the timeline...

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevach (Post 5977151)
but Sisko killed a prominent historical figure, took his place, stammered out his lines from the history books (not knowing how accurate those accounts actually were), and then disappearing did nothing except change the picture in the history books.

Sisko did not kill Gabriel Bell...

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevach (Post 5977151)
Oh, and two ships from the future doing spectacular battle in low orbit

'Spectacular battle'? The Borg sphere was firing consistently at the surface. The Enterprise-E fired four quantum torpedoes and the sphere exploded... That's hardly 'spectacular' :D

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevach (Post 5977151)
(Cochrane may have been dismissed as a drunk, but the other people near the launch site can't be so easily dismissed, and the explosion would have been visible far away

The other people at the launch site probably thought that the attack was the Eastern Coalition... Lily would have allowed them to maintain that belief, and on the occasions when Zef started running his mouth off, as you point out, he was dismissed as a drunk ;)

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevach (Post 5977151)
not to mention the reentry as a massive alien ship crashes into Antarctica),

??
Never happened...
Fragments from the sphere made it through the atmosphere following it's destruction, but it was hardly a re-entry and crash landing...

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevach (Post 5977151)
but the Vulcan ship that detected the Phoenix failed to notice the much larger and more powerful ship departing under its nose.

Worf clearly reported that the moon's gravitational field had obscured the Enterprise's warp signature from the T'Plana-Hath's sensors, no mystery there... If the T'Plana-Hath's sensors had detected anything, there would have been nothing remaining to investigate. Vulcans of the time would have no belief in time travel, so their logic would have dictated that the sensors had either picked up a subspace echo from the Phoenix's test flight, or that the sensor array had briefly malfunctioned and created an anomalous reading...

Quote:

Originally Posted by hevach (Post 5977151)
Heck, Yesterday's Enterprise: In three different timelines, despite changes massive enough to alter the fundamental nature of the Federation and the political balance of the entire quadrant, the Enterprise-D still managed to find itself in the same place at the same time for the same reason with the same crew and the same people on the bridge (Tasha Yar being the only difference). Also, everything in the mirror universe. No matter how far things in that universe have departed from the prime universe, the same people are in the same ships, usually in the same places doing similar things.

Even most of the things in Q's artificial future came to pass - the Negh'var rolled off the assembly line a few years later, some of the changes made to the Enterprise appeared on Galaxy class ships during the Dominion War, the uniforms appeared in no less than three futures despite multiple massive tinkering with the timeline.

As you mentioned above, dramatics and pre-destination for the win :D

oldkirkfan 10-07-2012 05:11 PM

Or... the uniform that Daniels and the other Temporal Agents wear, protect them from temporal incursions, similar to the spheres field protected the Enterprise E in First Contact. Allowing them to return to the past and correct the changes...


Hmmm.... Could Sam Beckett have really been Jonathan Archer.... No wonder Daniels chose to be on the Enterprise to capture Silik. :eek:

psycoticvulcan 10-07-2012 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oldkirkfan (Post 5984601)
Or... the uniform that Daniels and the other Temporal Agents wear, protect them from temporal incursions, similar to the spheres field protected the Enterprise E in First Contact. Allowing them to return to the past and correct the changes...

Didn't save Daniels' colleagues in "Shockwave"...


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