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-   -   Fed vs Klingon balance. Your Opinion? (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=409621)

kitsune1977 10-08-2012 11:02 PM

Fed vs Klingon balance. Your Opinion?
 
First the disclaimer. This is not a rant. This is statement of observations.

I have my own opinion about the balance issues between Federation and Klingon sides of the game. I am curious to know your opinion on the matter. Please post what you think and please no flaming people for how they feel.

My own experience is that Klingon's have the hands down advantage in PvP. Having played both I can say that my Klingon character and the advantages it has is far easier to get kills with than my Federation main. Way easier to survive when you can battle cloak not to mention the extra damage buff when coming out of cloak, granted only lasts 5 seconds but that is all it takes to destroy a ship when you have a decked out bird of prey. The biggest advantage that I have is the insane turn rate these things have. I am usually twice as fast (or feels like it anyway) as a Defiant in the turn rate. Add the evasive maneuvers and the slightest touch to my "steering wheel" and I just did a 180. It turns so fast I actually have a hard time keeping it on target when hitting evasive maneuvers is on. The only ship that has given me problems is the Jem Hadar attack ship. That thing is basically a fleet level ship.

Federation side I have 2 options for keeping up with the turn rate (not counting the Jem Hadar ship, that's available to both sides) Either load up a Defiant with RCS consoles and sacrifice survivability or use MVAM in Beta mode with an RCS console. Then I manage to barley keep up. Oh and yeah neither one can battle cloak.

Now I noticed that yes the Klingons lose a bridge officer slot for the battle cloak and the most weapons that a bird of prey at least can load is 4 for and 2 aft. Ok so I lose 1 turret in the back that is only doing minimal damage anyway and I think 2 skill slots. If you can just hide in plain sight you don't need them.

It just feels to me like I drop 10% effectiveness from standard but gain 80% advantage in combat if not more.

Oh and so you know where I come from I play tacs on both sides and fly escort or Bird of Prey with Escort build for Boff powers.

(Side note seems a common opinion of people that I have talked to in game say that Klingons get all the cool weapons and abilities so people will play them. Honestly it does feel that way to me.)

So let me know what you think.

khayuung 10-08-2012 11:13 PM

The BoPs that I do manage to catch, either because they are in between cloaks or they appeared in the wrong spot or I somehow managed to detect them through cloak (it happens pretty often, might be a bug), blow up in 1 salvo.

So you having a great time ducking and hiding while having 1 less boff slot and weapon slot, and miserable shields and hull, is not broken, its necessary. The Feds just have to learn to cope with that.

patrickngo 10-09-2012 03:40 AM

Not to mention, a cloaked BoP in the wrong spot when the following are deployed or go active:

Mines-see right through Cloaks.

Scatter Volley/Torpedo spread-all that damage straight to hull and crew.

and the sci powers like Gravity Well, that strip your cloak right off, and the Federation has a variety of systems and an entire CLASS of ships that can find you if you're not REAL careful-while cloaked.


Remember-damage sustained while cloaked is straight to hull, and most BoP have tinfoil hulls.

notapwefan 10-09-2012 04:09 AM

One of our bridge officer is a secret FED agent.
What else do Feds need more?

carcharodon1975 10-09-2012 04:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitsune1977 (Post 5999471)
First the disclaimer. This is not a rant. This is statement of observations.

I have my own opinion about the balance issues between Federation and Klingon sides of the game. I am curious to know your opinion on the matter. Please post what you think and please no flaming people for how they feel.

My own experience is that Klingon's have the hands down advantage in PvP. Having played both I can say that my Klingon character and the advantages it has is far easier to get kills with than my Federation main. Way easier to survive when you can battle cloak not to mention the extra damage buff when coming out of cloak, granted only lasts 5 seconds but that is all it takes to destroy a ship when you have a decked out bird of prey. The biggest advantage that I have is the insane turn rate these things have. I am usually twice as fast (or feels like it anyway) as a Defiant in the turn rate. Add the evasive maneuvers and the slightest touch to my "steering wheel" and I just did a 180. It turns so fast I actually have a hard time keeping it on target when hitting evasive maneuvers is on. The only ship that has given me problems is the Jem Hadar attack ship. That thing is basically a fleet level ship.

Federation side I have 2 options for keeping up with the turn rate (not counting the Jem Hadar ship, that's available to both sides) Either load up a Defiant with RCS consoles and sacrifice survivability or use MVAM in Beta mode with an RCS console. Then I manage to barley keep up. Oh and yeah neither one can battle cloak.

Now I noticed that yes the Klingons lose a bridge officer slot for the battle cloak and the most weapons that a bird of prey at least can load is 4 for and 2 aft. Ok so I lose 1 turret in the back that is only doing minimal damage anyway and I think 2 skill slots. If you can just hide in plain sight you don't need them.

It just feels to me like I drop 10% effectiveness from standard but gain 80% advantage in combat if not more.

Oh and so you know where I come from I play tacs on both sides and fly escort or Bird of Prey with Escort build for Boff powers.

(Side note seems a common opinion of people that I have talked to in game say that Klingons get all the cool weapons and abilities so people will play them. Honestly it does feel that way to me.)

So let me know what you think.

I thought this thread was about "Fed vs Klingon balance" and not "Fed escort vs BoP balance"...

You are comparing 2 different ship classes,a BoP isn't an escort.If you would compare the Defiant with a Raptor,that's a different story as both are escorts.The BoP is far from the IWIN ship you think it is,while it does have some advantages,it is one of the hardest ship classes to master.

And faction balance.....between the C-store,the lock boxes,the fleet ships and all the "free" ships......there is no balance,it's heavily favored to the Fed side.

gradstudent1 10-09-2012 05:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kitsune1977 (Post 5999471)
First the disclaimer. This is not a rant. This is statement of observations.

I have my own opinion about the balance issues between Federation and Klingon sides of the game. I am curious to know your opinion on the matter. Please post what you think and please no flaming people for how they feel.

My own experience is that Klingon's have the hands down advantage in PvP. Having played both I can say that my Klingon character and the advantages it has is far easier to get kills with than my Federation main. Way easier to survive when you can battle cloak not to mention the extra damage buff when coming out of cloak, granted only lasts 5 seconds but that is all it takes to destroy a ship when you have a decked out bird of prey. The biggest advantage that I have is the insane turn rate these things have. I am usually twice as fast (or feels like it anyway) as a Defiant in the turn rate. Add the evasive maneuvers and the slightest touch to my "steering wheel" and I just did a 180. It turns so fast I actually have a hard time keeping it on target when hitting evasive maneuvers is on. The only ship that has given me problems is the Jem Hadar attack ship. That thing is basically a fleet level ship.

Federation side I have 2 options for keeping up with the turn rate (not counting the Jem Hadar ship, that's available to both sides) Either load up a Defiant with RCS consoles and sacrifice survivability or use MVAM in Beta mode with an RCS console. Then I manage to barley keep up. Oh and yeah neither one can battle cloak.

Now I noticed that yes the Klingons lose a bridge officer slot for the battle cloak and the most weapons that a bird of prey at least can load is 4 for and 2 aft. Ok so I lose 1 turret in the back that is only doing minimal damage anyway and I think 2 skill slots. If you can just hide in plain sight you don't need them.

It just feels to me like I drop 10% effectiveness from standard but gain 80% advantage in combat if not more.

Oh and so you know where I come from I play tacs on both sides and fly escort or Bird of Prey with Escort build for Boff powers.

(Side note seems a common opinion of people that I have talked to in game say that Klingons get all the cool weapons and abilities so people will play them. Honestly it does feel that way to me.)

So let me know what you think.

Thanks, kitsune1977, for some interesting observations. In my experience, individual ship strengths and weaknesses are rarely ever the deciding factor in a PvP match. The deciding factor in almost all PvP is teamwork, coordination, and communication. This is possible to achieve, even in a PUG. One just needs somebody to step up and take leadership (call shots, share heals, etc.).

Character build is also quite important of course.

bitemepwe 10-09-2012 07:02 AM

The BoP is a one-trick pony with a surprise advantage regardless of how it is flown or what BOff configuration its uses.
Its only purpose is to decloak and attack from surprise, iether alone or in a pack for better results.
It is niether O.P or U.P, but falls right in line with its design as a Raider and has the handicaps needed to make it useful without being too easy.
Its a thoroughbred ship and only responds well to those who have mastered it.

I disagree with the premise that the KDF got all the cool toys though.
It just seems more fun to play the KDF in a game designed around DPS, much like many say the Tac/Escort is the fun class to play on fed.
As the warrior/warlike faction its more pronounced and fun in such a setting but do not discount the feds, they have many options to choose from and arguably the best vessels in the game for PvP and PvE.

razellis 10-09-2012 09:43 AM

Having flew both sides it seems like klinks have an advantage in PVP.

Their carriers, carrier pets, cruisers and B.o.P's are more potent as a general rule damage wise. Fed's have some of the nicest ships in the game but with the exception of Raptors vs. escorts it feels like the klinks have the highest utility on each ship type(read do other things and damage). Part of the problem is some of the universal consoles are not at all balanced and the accuracy debuff and placate on the honor guard shield are powerful protections.

P.S. I love my honor guard shield on teams filled with carriers and vicious battle-cruisers.

red01999 10-09-2012 11:03 AM

I haven't done PvP involving Klingons, but I can say that it sure looks like the KDF has superior ships in most categories - possibly by a considerable margin. Their cruisers are quicker and have a lot better/more firepower (except the Bortas, which is admittedly even more of a slug than the Odyssey - which is an achievement in itself in a bizarre sort of way). This is not helped by the fact that it seems like whenever any goodie the KDF brushes against is permitted to the Feds in even limited form, it is immediately declared the one and only thing that the KDF has ever had and ever will have that has any appeal to new players whatsoever and the entire faction will spontaneously combust within an hour of the feature/item's Fed-side release.

I will admit that the KDF has a severe deficiency in terms of science ships, but that doesn't seem to be a huge impediment, since it seems that most people use cruisers or escorts, anyway, and they definitely have better carriers (which are kinda-sorta science ships). That said, I do feel for the science fans on the KDF side, and hope that this is rectified in the future.

I am aware that many cite the Federation's "non-militaristic" philosophy as a reason for slower, under-powered ships, but unfortunately in STO that just translates to "gross disadvantage," and really, after the Dominion, the Borg, the resurgance of the Klingons as foes in the Dominion war AND now, and the ever-constant threat of the Romulans, that the Federation would begin to realize that they can't pretend enemies don't exist and think that goodwill will make them go away.

Then again, I could see the Federation being utterly incapable of learning, like so many RL governments. :rolleyes:

quiscustodiet 10-09-2012 12:18 PM

Klingons do have the upper hand, but it's incidental: Power Siphon Drones.

Carriers are the bane of PvP, but the Atrox slightly less so than the Kar'Fi & Vo'quv.
The rest is fine.


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