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-   -   Double-Dipping: It should cut both ways! (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=420131)

stoleviathan99 10-19-2012 04:33 PM

Double-Dipping: It should cut both ways!
 
I just spoke to Jeremy/Borticus on TTS and reviewed the reputation system.

There are some nifty DOff-level powers you get for rep but the principal rewards for Omega rep are the same Mk XI and Mk XII gear items.

Jeremy says that the owners of these items have their rewards already and will not be grandfathered into the rep system. Unspent EDC and items will be converted into marks spent on rep alongside dilithium and the conversion will be outlined in an upcoming blog. He says grandfathering is NOT up for discussion and that rep grandfathering (even for people who already have the rep rewards) would be "double-dipping." He reiterated that there is no room for feedback on this point, which is why I'm not posting this in a feedback forum.

I disagree strongly with this and believe that Jeremy the podcaster would as well... and I'm not sure why Jeremy the dev sees no room for discussion.

IMHO, Cryptic is double-dipping on content by tying Omega Rep to projects that require running OLD STFs and not recognizing the work put forward by people who earned the old gear sets.

IMHO, it is not acceptable for them to refuse to let players double-dip for rewards when they double-dip for content. If these were new STFs for the reward system, it would be one thing. But people with Mk XI and Mk XII items have already run hundreds of STFs and not recognizing that in Omega Fleet reputation SHOULD be up for discussion.

I'm not saying someone with full Mk XII should get FULL Omega rep but considering they're grinding what they ALREADY HAVE in content they have ALREADY DONE many times, the idea that they get nothing for it in the new system is Cryptic double-dipping, while refusing to extend the same courtesy to players.

I think it's wrong and it's killing my enthusiasm for anything related to STFs. Grinding for what is, principally, the right to buy what I already have is silly and pointless, unless Cryptic is prepared to crank out another 6 STFs to do it in.

Double-dipping should cut both ways.

ocp001 10-19-2012 04:39 PM

Double dipping? Let us be honest, Cryptic has been double fisting it's player base with those three STF missions for nearly three years.

When are they going to give something back to the community?

stoleviathan99 10-19-2012 04:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ocp001 (Post 6176001)
Double dipping? Let us be honest, Cryptic has been double fisting it's player base with those three STF missions for nearly three years.

When are they going to give something back to the community?

My issue again, is not with the idea of a new system with new content where everyone starts fresh.

Romulan rep starting at zero makes perfect sense to me. The big thing being recycled for inclusion there is the Vault shuttle event which people have run a limited number of times.

I have no issue with the idea of rep. I have no issue with Cryptic wanting people to repeat content more; a big problem with FEs was the lack of reason to do so.

But STFs have been reheated and re-served so many times that someone with verifiable progress should get something for it. I'm not saying Tier 5 rep but howabout half a tier's worth of rep for owning each Mk X, half for owning each Mk XI, and half for owning each Mk XII.

That's 3 tiers max for the poor fool who ground out 6 item sets and will have to re-grind the same content again. Which I'm not saying they shouldn't do for new rewards but something should be done because their old rewards and old content are being recycled again.

Stop trying to double-dip so friggin' much, Cryptic.

As I said elsewhere, this would be like if WoW, upon seeing that the Heroic Occulus wasn't well-liked, released a remastered Occulus every six months instead of new dungeons.

danielpenfold 10-19-2012 04:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 (Post 6176331)
My issue again, is not with the idea of a new system with new content where everyone starts fresh.

Romulan rep starting at zero makes perfect sense to me. The big thing being recycled for inclusion there is the Vault shuttle event which people have run a limited number of times.

I have no issue with the idea of rep. I have no issue with Cryptic wanting people to repeat content more; a big problem with FEs was the lack of reason to do so.

But STFs have been reheated and re-served so many times that someone with verifiable progress should get something for it. I'm not saying Tier 5 rep but howabout half a tier's worth of rep for owning each Mk X, half for owning each Mk XI, and half for owning each Mk XII.

That's 3 tiers max for the poor fool who ground out 6 item sets and will have to re-grind the same content again. Which I'm not saying they shouldn't do for new rewards but something should be done because their old rewards and old content are being recycled again.

Stop trying to double-dip so friggin' much, Cryptic.

As I said elsewhere, this would be like if WoW, upon seeing that the Heroic Occulus wasn't well-liked, released a remastered Occulus every six months instead of new dungeons.

So is this somthing that is bad or not like that?

badname834854 10-19-2012 05:08 PM

this is unacceptable. And rude. And greedy. And lazy. And short-sighted.

Most importantly it's bad business.

stoleviathan99 10-19-2012 05:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by danielpenfold (Post 6176401)
So is this somthing that is bad or not like that?

You mean Occulus?

It was an unpopular dungeon. And Blizzard added a mount to it, re-tuned it once, and moved on. In general, when they reheat content at Blizz, it's because not enough people saw it before (and the new version features new encounter designs) or because it was popular enough people wanted reasons to re-do it.

Rewards should follow the flow of intrinsic motivation, not counter for lack of it.

skyranger1414 10-19-2012 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 (Post 6175901)

I disagree strongly with this and believe that Jeremy the podcaster would as well... and I'm not sure why Jeremy the dev sees no room for discussion.

Because he works for them now. Simple as that. The idea is to introduce new grinds every season or so, more than any player can possibly keep up with. They KNOW if they based it off accolades most players would shoot to the top of the rep system right away, how many haven't done all the optionals on elite at least once? Or if they did a 1 for 1 conversion most of us have had several hundred EDCs at one time. His comments about people with MK 12 not having to do anything are most likely wrong. People that have farmed up full MK12 sets tend to be completionists, they will feel compelled to do the Omega rep grind if only for the "passives and power" they cleverly incorporated into it. That's clearly aimed at making it desirable by even those with thousands of STFs under their belts. Not to mention the rep grind must reward more than just the ground sets and powers.... even Cryptic wouldn't really make a grind that sparse would they?


Beyond all that, I'm sure that the internal culture at Cryptic changes the views of those who go work there. Think about it for a minute, they expect their players to be little hamsters and do ever increasing grinds for shinies they still have to pay for! Grinds I'm sure most of them wouldn't even dream of touching. How little must they think of their players! Maybe it wasn't always like that, but I'm sure PWI sent a nice speaker, or group of speakers or trainers that changed their views on what the players are and how the worst aspects of F2P are perfectly justifiable. Or at least made it clear to them how things were going to be from now on and that they had better adapt. After all, they're willing to pay right? No one is "holding a gun to their heads to make them open up their wallets for Zen" right?

Grinds within grinds is not too different from what other MMOs do, but most other MMOS don't leave me feeling ripped off either.

Edit: I should point out I have stopped trying to get all MK 12 pieces I still needed when all this became clearer. I don't know If I will accept Cryptic's new grind or not, but I KNOW that If I had a full ground set I'd be really, really, REALLY angry at them if I choose to continue and got anymore. Guess we'll just have to see. I've actually heard great things about pet battles and my poor mesmer is so low level...:(

knuhteb5 10-19-2012 05:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stoleviathan99 (Post 6176331)
My issue again, is not with the idea of a new system with new content where everyone starts fresh.

Romulan rep starting at zero makes perfect sense to me. The big thing being recycled for inclusion there is the Vault shuttle event which people have run a limited number of times.

I have no issue with the idea of rep. I have no issue with Cryptic wanting people to repeat content more; a big problem with FEs was the lack of reason to do so.

But STFs have been reheated and re-served so many times that someone with verifiable progress should get something for it. I'm not saying Tier 5 rep but howabout half a tier's worth of rep for owning each Mk X, half for owning each Mk XI, and half for owning each Mk XII.

That's 3 tiers max for the poor fool who ground out 6 item sets and will have to re-grind the same content again. Which I'm not saying they shouldn't do for new rewards but something should be done because their old rewards and old content are being recycled again.

Stop trying to double-dip so friggin' much, Cryptic.

As I said elsewhere, this would be like if WoW, upon seeing that the Heroic Occulus wasn't well-liked, released a remastered Occulus every six months instead of new dungeons.

I'm not following. Why would that poor fool have to regrind again? Are those sets going to be removed from their inventory? What do you mean?

Edit: I think you mean people who have stocked up a lot of EDC's who are worried that the conversion to the rep system won't be 1 to 1. Am I right?

stoleviathan99 10-19-2012 05:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyranger1414 (Post 6176701)
Because he works for them now. Simple as that.

He was hired for his expertise, which he should still have.

I really would like to get Chris' feedback on this, if even plays STO anymore.

stoleviathan99 10-19-2012 05:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by knuhteb5 (Post 6176761)
I'm not following. Why would that poor fool have to regrind again? Are those sets going to be removed from their inventory? What do you mean?

Edit: I think you mean people who have stocked up a lot of EDC's who are worried that the conversion to the rep system won't be 1 to 1. Am I right?

My point is that the new tiers offer the same rewards for the same content with only a little extra.

If you expect Mk XII and Mk XI holders to grind for that little extra, they shouldn't have to grind the full amount.

You'd be better off spending your EDCs on dilithium now or not spending them and letting them convert (not spending them is your best bet). Spending them on gear is a waste because that progress won't be recognized.


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