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rodentmaster 10-21-2012 11:11 AM

How have you set up your bortas for a sci character?
I'm curious...

I have a bortas command (read: tactical) and I have a sci kdf character...

How would you all set up, or how have you already set up, such a ship for a sci character? Mainly skills would be grav well, tyken's rift, and so forth. I know the ship can be a tank, but I'm also trying to focus on this character's sci skills.

What boff setup? What types of weapons? Consoles don't matter as much since it's mostly TAC consoles. Just thought I'd ask if anybody had a similar setup already. I don't use it because so far I can't see it as being useful to my sci.

twam 10-22-2012 02:31 AM

Interesting question.
Maybe something along these lines?

Tac: TT, TS2
Eng: EPtS, RSP, ES2, Aux2Sif3
Sci: TSS, HE
Uni1: PH, Tyken's, GW
Uni2: Tractor Beam

Fit her up with Chronitons and either phasers or disruptors, for their proc benefits?

You could try Eject Warp Plasma, but I don't think she has the turn rate for that...
Also, you could swap ES2 for EPtS3, if you're so inclined, but I tend to prefer the team heal option over the self heal/damage resist, on science-heavy builds. They have more diverse sources for resists/heals. TSS, HE, PH, Aux2Sif, EPtS, BFI all stack.

Haven't tried it in action, but I imagine it'd work. I run something vaguely similar on my Wells, but the extra hull strength of the Bortas should offset the lack of manouvrability, in terms of survival.

The 5 tactical consoles is a great benefit, as it'll allow your science tank to pump out some serious damage, I suspect.

If this works out, I'd be interesting in buying the Bortas for my Klingon too, as I've been on the fence for a while now.

rodentmaster 10-25-2012 11:33 AM

My main build was a sci hegh'ta to get GW3 on the CDR universal. Then I just loved the K'Tinga retrofit so I used it for daily stuff. Works great, even do decent damage with DHCs, but I miss those sci skills. It's why I built my sci.

Went back to my Hegh'ta recently just to get those skills back, but now I'll try the Bortas you listed above. I'll give it a shot. Thanks!

rodentmaster 10-26-2012 10:37 AM

Well, my first attempt was rather.... abyssmal. Mainly my sci offensive skills were GW2 and TR1. I had to stick with disruptor, because the axial autocannon is disruptor in type. It's also a cannon, not a beam, so I decided to run 4x turrets in back and 4x Disruptor cannons up front (single cannons, 180 degree firing, slightly higher dps than beam arrays). Then I put TT1 and CRF1 as my tac skills. The plus? CRF adds a lot of firepower to cannons. I was also hoping to trigger the autocannon console with it running at some point, maybe get a cool effect out of it.

Even so I could still not get turned around nearly fast enough. The problem is I'm not specced in starship thrusters *at all* on this character. It took nearly a minute to turn around and back up to get something back into my front hemisphere to fire at it.

I nearly lost the CSE match because of it. Luckily we had a great team that really carried me. I let them know ahead of time I was testing a new ship I'd never done so they were all aware going in.

I really need to rethink my build. Change some boff skills for better survivability. The problem is it needs more console slots. 5x blue/purp disruptor as tac, 1x shield in the solo science, and the eng slots were all consumed with borg, iso, bortasqu' autocannon, and magnetometric universal consoles. I'm going to ditch the magneto, since there's no manueverability to use such a console. I really hate to ditch the ISO, but I can. That leaves only 1 slot for an RCS, or I start sacrificing disruptor consoles (which I am loathe to do!). I want to respec but it's too expensive! It will wait. Also, I have a boxed point defense turret console, but again that takes up another slot! But... it would make up for lack of FAW. CSV1 is a LT slot, unfortunately. It severely limits cannons on most cruisers.

The thing is, as much as it sucked, as much as I died because I was 1) busy fighting to turn the darned ship or 2) unable to trigger FAW to pop a plasma torp because I don't have FAW or beams for that matter, I still did a couple million damage. We were down a man because somebody left halfway through, so I wasn't the lowest performer, but of those that stuck around I definitely was. That's still better than some damage outputs I've done on my Sci Hegh'ta build. There's potential here, somewhere. I just have to find it.

And I have to up my maneuverability somehow. That means RCS consoles for now, and eventually a respec.

tetonica 10-27-2012 04:12 AM

you could try using the conn officer boffs that reduce the recharge of evasive maneuvers. It should be fine for stf's at least.

I used to run a dhc build that was tac focused and it worked alright. I just had to get used to the inertia and turn rate a bit but since stf's are generally fairly predictable I didn't have too much problem with it. I ended up trading it in for the kar'fi though, which is IMO the premier STF ship, at least stf side

twam 10-27-2012 04:13 AM

Hm, ok.

So main issues manoeuvrability and, as a consequence, durability.

Clearly, the thrusters skill would make your life a lot easier, but that is indeed a very expensive fix.
In the meantime, (assuming engineer boff skills in the line of what I posted earlier) what you could try is substitute ES2 for Aux to Dampeners, that will give you a (133%) turn rate/speed boost. Coupled with evasive manoeuvres (483%) that might help. Maybe even one or two doffs to reduce cooldown on evasive?

That way, you don't sacrifice too much, in order areas.

What you could also try is to (temporarily) put more power into your engines, until you're facing your target.
On the subject of engines, what type are you using, out of curiousity? I generally like the KHG engines for their power boost, though here the Energy Wake proc on the Omega Force shields would also be nice. If you're not using torpedoes, it might pay to use Omega deflector and shields for the Tetryon Glider and Energy Wake procs, in combination with the KHG (efficient) engines?

Anecdotal: on a Fed engineering character, 6 points in thrusters, I've gotten the Dreadnought from it's turn rate of 6 up to escort levels, by stacking aux to dampeners, evasive and emergency power to engines. Without RCS console, even... Now, that's overdoing it, clearly, but it was a nice test.

Console: tricky, I'm not sure what'd be the best way to go there. I like the Iso charge too, particularly in combination with a Gravity Well. So indeed, maybe the Magnetomatric, since the tac consoles give way to much advantage to scrap...

Good to hear that the damage is good, though. That means that it is a viable option, after tweaking...

futurepastnow 10-27-2012 10:43 AM

You're asking how I have done this, and I haven't done this, so I'm just thinking out loud here. Probably I would make it a heavy healboat, with HE3 and 2, a couple of TSS's, Aux to SIF 3 and 2...

Most offensive sci powers have a 90-degree arc. I just don't see a Bortas getting much mileage out of them.

rodentmaster 10-27-2012 11:54 AM

I went through a couple of boff setups. I put A2Damp on there, I put 2 RCS consoles... and it was still too much of a pig. The only way to run this ship is 7 or 8 beam arrays and never move. It's atrocious! I could barely cover the off-side probes on KASE because they were moving too fast for me. My fed in an oddy does far better for whatever reason. Same turn rate, but must have different inertia ratings or something.

After a few tries I really deemed it unworthy to use. On the sci front my Hegh'Ta gives me far better sci offensive capabilities, even though I can't tank. On the tank-and-shoot-without-much-sci-skills side I have a K'Tinga retrofit that does damned well. I just don't get my grav well and so forth. Both of these are light years better than the Bortas.

So I stopped using it. For now. Just about everything else I've ever used is better and more effective than it, so I'm going to drop the idea until I hear of a really good setup that I might want to try in the future. it really is a massive waste of money for me to have bought that thing 8 months back.

twam 10-27-2012 02:58 PM

If these things didn't fix it, I'm pretty much out of suggestions too, I guess.

Sorry for you, though...
Maybe I'll stick to my Hegh'ta and Mirror Vor'cha, then, if it takes this much effort to get some sort of mileage out of it. Maybe if there's any way of testing cstore ships on Tribble I could try some things, but I'm not sure that's possible.

The sad thing is that there is actually a specific Sci-Bortas, but as that pretty much has the same stats, that's a joke too, then...

rodentmaster 10-28-2012 01:33 PM

See, the thing is I can set it up with the same boff skills as my oddy on my fed, ENS/LT tac, LtCDR/CDR eng, LT sci. Basic eng cruiser setup. Stick 8 beams on it, run max power, tank.

I can do that. But it still turns worse than an oddy, and frankly I can do the same thing with better results in more nimble ships. The exact same setup is on the vor'cha retrofit, the k'tinga retro and F K'tinga retro as well. There's no reason to use the bortasqu' for it.

As far as an eng cruiser it might do well, but trying to get sci skills from it? It's a compromise from both a cruiser standpoint and a sci ship standpoint, and going dedicated either way will give better results.

I'm sorry if my previous post came off as too overly negative. I suppose the bortasqu' has redeeming qualities, but frankly the same qualities are found elsewhere. So for this character I'm going elsewhere.

I suppose it would be good for an engineer, though. You could run the LtCDR as a TAC for better offense, and use eng skills to run high power to the weapons and protect your shields because you have less eng boffs.

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