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-   -   DOFF Upgrinder Cost: If we have to pay, it should not be random. (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=422651)

ussultimatum 10-22-2012 05:50 PM

DOFF Upgrinder Cost: If we have to pay, it should not be random.
 
There is a massive disparity in price ranges and usefulness across DOFF specialties.

If we are now going to be forced to pay a chunk of dilithium, in addition to 5 DOFFs, the random element needs to be removed.


All of the other dilithium taxes function with a deterministic reward, Fleet Gear, STF Gear, Dil Store Gear, SB Progression, Lt. Ferra/S'stas Doffs, etc.


Why is the grinder now a dilithium gamble?

I mean, it's already somewhat of a gamble now. You can use 5 blue doffs with a total value of 1 to 2 million, and end up with a Purple doff only worth 600k. Now you would lose 5K dilithium on top of that.

At the very least we should now be able to choose the Dept we want (Tactical, Ops, etc).


If you want to make this an attractive sink, and not see it abandoned then there needs to be a determinable reward.

red01999 10-22-2012 08:13 PM

Simply put, because it will probably make more money in the short term.

I, for one, don't intend on using it much, if at all, unless it gives you a lot more choice. Heck, I've never once used it now yet!

ussultimatum 10-22-2012 08:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red01999 (Post 6218541)
Simply put, because it will probably make more money in the short term.

I, for one, don't intend on using it much, if at all, unless it gives you a lot more choice. Heck, I've never once used it now yet!


Honestly, there will be no reason a thinking player will touch this.

5000 dilithium + 1 to 2 million ECs worth of Blue Doffs for a random Purple - from a random Department, a random specialization and a random set of traits.

It just doesn't make sense.

meurik 10-22-2012 08:19 PM

I know atleast for my part, i'm using the "upgrinder" as much as possible now, before Season 7 hits. Especially if the Dilithium tax sticks (and it very well might, despite heavy opposition). I know from experience, that when things end up on Tribble, it is left relatively the same before ending up on Holodeck.

red01999 10-22-2012 08:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ussultimatum (Post 6218591)
Honestly, there will be no reason a thinking player will touch this.

5000 dilithium + 1 to 2 million ECs worth of Blue Doffs for a random Purple - from a random Department, a random specialization and a random set of traits.

It just doesn't make sense.

I never really thought it was that great in the first place. That said, I got my blues and purples the hard way, usually grinding out colony missions and occasionally picking up a wanted one or two off the Exchange.

I always figured you'd probably get something useless on the other end, so I thought it would be ill-advised to use it. With the increasing dil costs that only becomes moreso.

I hope the devs are keeping this in mind and adjusting starbase costs downwards. Otherwise, fleets are just going to give up on the bases. So much for the bottom line there. Despite the incessant chant of "it isn't a race," usually by those in very large fleets or have solo fleets, I cannot help but think it is undesirable to grind now for a ship I MIGHT get in two to five years, made worse if you're concerned with potential longevity.

chikahiro 10-22-2012 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red01999 (Post 6218541)
Simply put, because it will probably make more money in the short term.

I, for one, don't intend on using it much, if at all, unless it gives you a lot more choice. Heck, I've never once used it now yet!

Well, I personally think the cost is there to slow people down more than making money off possible Zen:Dilithium sales. I could well be wrong there, but I simply get the feeling they want to slow the rate at which you get a fully maxed out crew compliment (min/maxing for space/ground abilities or maximizing successes in DOFF assignments).

Notice that going the other way (grinding down from high to low) doesn't cost anything. I find that to be quite profitable, and very useful with the Fleet system! Likewise, the slower Officer exchanges (4 hours to complete) only cost you 1 DOFF, and no Dilithium. Still a gamble either way, though.

In short, the old compactor might've been "too good" for its Cost (time + dilithium) vs reward.

chikahiro 10-22-2012 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by red01999 (Post 6218841)
I hope the devs are keeping this in mind and adjusting starbase costs downwards. Otherwise, fleets are just going to give up on the bases. So much for the bottom line there. Despite the incessant chant of "it isn't a race," usually by those in very large fleets or have solo fleets, I cannot help but think it is undesirable to grind now for a ship I MIGHT get in two to five years, made worse if you're concerned with potential longevity.

Well, its generally better, perception-wise, to start with less favorable and move to more favorable. Even if you end up with the same numbers, going from favorable and making it less favorable annoys people. Its ALWAYS better perception to buff than nerf, even if what the nerf is fixing might be an exploit/exploitable (because, frankly, pro-player imbalances/exploits can be well liked).

We'll see what happens. Whether we (or the devs) like it or not, MMOs are services, not products, and that means they do have to adjust and change things as new systems come along, the playerbase changes, etc.

red01999 10-22-2012 08:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by chikahiro (Post 6218901)
Well, I personally think the cost is there to slow people down more than making money off possible Zen:Dilithium sales. I could well be wrong there, but I simply get the feeling they want to slow the rate at which you get a fully maxed out crew compliment (min/maxing for space/ground abilities or maximizing successes in DOFF assignments).

Notice that going the other way (grinding down from high to low) doesn't cost anything. I find that to be quite profitable, and very useful with the Fleet system! Likewise, the slower Officer exchanges (4 hours to complete) only cost you 1 DOFF, and no Dilithium. Still a gamble either way, though.

In short, the old compactor might've been "too good" for its Cost (time + dilithium) vs reward.

That, I will grant you.

The devs want to slow progress down. And frankly, I can't blame them. How many people have you heard screaming about having nothing to do? I've heard a lot. A whole lot.

And I can't entirely fault them for wanting to monetize the DOff system.

The problems come in two flavors, though:

1) Numbers of DOffs needed - the starbases are horrid, ravenous beasts. When I see a project stinking things up for a week on the list, it's always a DOff bottleneck needed. One of my fleets is halfway to T3, and we're having problems mustering up the troops to sacrifice.

2) The sacrifice of DOffs - DOffs are actually quite valuable. Both as boosters and as stuff. People are reluctant to offer them up to the starbase beast - and I don't blame them. I don't sacrifice my best. And there are a few DOffs I did sacrifice - albeit reluctantly - from my first set of DOffs (yeah, I got a little attached) because I'd rather them be in a starbase than splatter on a mission. Yes, silly, I know.

But this combination results in a lot of people becoming incredibly frustrated when their fleet, which does not have titanic numbers, ends up stuck early to mid way through the grind. I'm not a fleet leader so I don't precisely know how base missions are allocated, but I have to wonder if there are ways around sacrificing DOffs.

So I can see a lot of fleets just plain throwing in the towel - especially since people need to do this to get base-level end-game gear, and with the embassies now wanting to be fed.

That said, this topic is not only a dead horse, but one that is thoroughly putrifying and mostly skeletonized, so I won't continue to beat on it, but, there ya have it.

maddog0000doom 10-22-2012 09:16 PM

the doff system needs new tiers and new roster slots. not a 200000x increase diltihium price using the doff grinder

azurianstar 10-22-2012 10:00 PM

I honestly wish the Dev Team would reconsider this Dilithium Tax, or at least give us some explaination why they are doing this all of a sudden.


Because this Dilithum Tax is just going to hurt everyone, especially small fleets who have to do the DOFF shuffle in order to get the right DOFFs to projects. And lets not forget that a lot of people are very low on Dilithium right now because of these same Starbase Projects.

I just hope this isn't somekind of conn by Perfect World to force us to spend Zen on the Dilithum Exchange, because that's something like the mafia did.


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