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jbmaverick 10-27-2012 04:31 PM

Rate/Improve my build
I've been playing STO since Beta, and pretty much from the beginning I've liked the concept of flying the heavily armored cruiser. I've played with multiple builds, made adjustments over time, and generally had fun with it. However, I've run into a wall of sorts on how I can further improve my build, so I'm looking for ideas from the community now.

Odyssey Science Cruiser
Forward weapons: 3x Fleet Mk XII AP Beam arrays, 1x Hargh'Peng Torpedo
Aft weapons: See forward weapons
Engineering Consoles: 1x Plasma Distribution Manifold Mk XI (Blue), 2x Field Emitters Mk XI (Blue), Chevron Separation
Science Consoles: 2x Field Generator Mk XI (Blue), Point Defense System, Universal Assimilated Console
Tactical Consoles: 2x Antiproton Mag Regulator Mk XI (Blue)
MACO MK XI Resilient Shield
Aegis Mk X Hyper-Impulse Engine (was Assimilated Impulse Engine, but with changes to Borg set, looking for something different)
Aegis Mk X Deflector Array (was MACO Mk XI Deflector, but the 2-piece set bonus is rather underwhelming right now)
Active Duty Officers: 2x Very Rare Shield Distribution Officers, 1x Rare Shield Distribution Officer, 1x Very Rare Energy Weapons Officer (BFAW recharge time reduction), 1x Rare Gravimetric Scientist (can't quite seem to get the critical success for that Renown)

Current skills:

The obvious intent of this build is PvE-only play, with heavy emphasis on STF tanking. Beam Fire at Will draws attention from as many targets as possible, along with Threat Control to hold agro as long as possible and protect other members of the team. Gravity Well is available to help with CC if necessary (it's come in handy on occasion). Can stagger EPtS I and TSS II for near constant shield healing and resistances (TSS doesn't have 100% uptime, but it's pretty close), with RSP I for emergency burst healing. Unfortunately, this build is a little low on team healing abilities, although if I'm not under heavy fire TSS can be used. Depending on the stats when Season 7 comes out, I may end up replacing my torpedos, forward with the Omega Adapted Plasma Heavy Torpedo and aft with the Kinetic Cutting Beam.

So that's it, let's hear what everyone has to say. I think my consoles in particular need some work (besides the obvious upgrade to Very Rare Mk XIIs).

adamkafei 10-28-2012 04:40 AM

I used to use the Aegis set on my Excelsior and I find the 3 piece Aegis to be a little better than the 3 piece MACO i think the reactive shielding could use a buff but it's still worth having until full Mk XII MACO is available to you. The other thing full Aegis does is give you +10 to shield power so that's 10 power you can use elsewhere if you want.

I think given the lacking turn rate of the oddy the weapon layout is good.

Rather than the plasma dist console I'd take the EPS regulator as it is better for keeping power levels up and thus propping up damage, with cycling EPtS you don't need the field emitter consoles so I would recommend the use of neutroniums.

I doubt grav well will be of much use to you with the oddy turn rate; you might get away with photonic shockwave but with PvE in mind I would recommend something more along the lines of:

Tac based


Eng based

For both you can reallocate ground and spare points to better suit you.

The tac based allows you to max team DPS as you can get both attack pattern debuffs on a target at the same time the eng based allows you to keep up your sustained DPS and spike for a fair amount. I would build a science but as most of the sci skills that are still powerful are 90 deg firing arc the ship renders them near useless.

jbmaverick 10-29-2012 12:57 AM

I could have sworn the devs said the EPS Flow Regulator consoles had no impact on weapons energy drain recovery (and therefore no effect on damage output), only helping to recover from abilities that drained additional power such as Beam Overload (none of which I have nor regularly face) or power setting transitions. As for the Neutroniums, I've had one or two in the past but wasn't sure how important it was to have hull resists when it was just about a done-deal when your shields dropped no matter how much hull resistance you had. Of course, that was before some of the changes to STFs that removed the near one-shot kills so maybe I should pull them back out of storage. Keep in mind I'm running 3 universal consoles in this build, and I can move them around to make better use of slots (Point Defense, Assimilated, Chevron Separation). Maybe I should just move them all to engineering, pick up a Neutronium (diminishing returns makes having more than 1 or 2 armor consoles less useful anyway), then fit four Field Generators?

As for the full Aegis set, keep in mind that the MACO shield not only can grants +10 to shield power, but to all the other power systems as well if you're under heavy fire. And I'm still getting 5 of the Aegis benefit from having the deflector. The Aegis resistance benefit also only applies to hull while the MACO shield has innate resistances to all types built in AND they apply to your shields, which is arguably more important (I still don't understand why this is the case, it's Aegis Reactive Shielding, not Reactive Hull Plating).

I've considered running Eject Warp Plasma on this build, but I feel Gravity Well is easier to use since I just need to be facing my target, not flying right in front of them, which could be even more difficult depending on timing and distance. Sure, the Odyssey has a rather low turn rate, but that's why I have the Chevron Separation console (I usually start every space STF by activating it, and rarely have to wait for the cooldown because I was destroyed), Evasive Maneuvers, and surplus deuterium devices equipped. I'll have to play around with bridge officer stations to see if I can have both, but I feel that it'll result in my having to either drop a science officer (which means the loss of a TSS, which I can't really afford if I'm only relying on EPtS 1 rather than 3) or the loss of an engineering power, probably RSP, which might be more palatable to lose but I still use it occasionally if I come under particularly heavy fire in an Elite run.

I'm not really looking for a more tactical-heavy setup, as my fleet can regularly complete optional objectives in all the space STFs even with my "low" tactical output, and I usually don't have trouble holding aggro on the bosses either. I have considered using a single-cannon/turret build in the past, but Cannon Scatter Volley doesn't have as good an ability to draw attention due to its limited targeting arc and Rapid Fire is single-target burst DPS, not really suitable for what I'm trying to accomplish. I have used Attack Pattern Delta in the past due to the fact it acted as a team buff while I held aggro on a target. However, my build effectively requires a multi-target ability, and no good player runs without Tactical Team, which would mean I would need to change one of my current universal slots to Tactical, which again at minimum removes either TSS or an engineering power, which starts to move my ship away from being a heavy tank and more towards DPS support, which would make it far more effective for me to just switch to the Excelsior-class or Regent-class. The main reason I even use the Odyssey is because I can fit that science LTC officer, something no other cruiser can currently do.

I definitely need to consider a skill respec, I'm sure there's a few points I've misplaced (too many in Power Insulators in particular). Just need to make sure I know what I'm respecing to.

vesolc 10-29-2012 04:01 AM

jbmaverick is right about EPS Flow Regulator

adamkafei 10-29-2012 04:24 AM


Originally Posted by vesolc (Post 6303261)
jbmaverick is right about EPS Flow Regulator

I have to disagree on that one, since I put one on my Excelsior I've noticed my damage output figures rise by upto 200 per hit, I even took it off to test that

Also with regard to not being able to afford to lose a copy of TSS as an engineer I run dual EPtS 1 and a copy of TSS 2 which with TT and RSF very rarely leaves me without shields. Both the builds I suggested give you equal ability to tank, the only difference is that one gives more spike and team DPS the other more sustained DPS however at the end of the day it is your ship and your build.

baudl 10-29-2012 06:26 AM

nope EPS consoles do not influence any power drain while fireing your weapons, period. The only 2 instances it is usefull is if you use beam overload and switch constantly between powerlevels. That has been tested by numerous people already and has actually been stated by cryptic too.

on your build: cool build, i give it a 7 out of 10. i think the ET3 is a little too much...for tanking stfs it is kind of too much hull heal, maybe switch it with EPtS3 instead.
then, the aegis 2 set gives you in your case 10% def...thats good but really not worth it compared to the benefits of 2 piece borg + maco shields...even after the set change in season 7. Why? the borg deflector is statwise not that strong, but has +5 aux...more heal on everything and more stopping power with grav well. the engine is weaker than the aegis, but +5 engine energie makes you faster which means more def, not 5% but still has a flat bonus there + the incredible borg setbonus.
personally i rather have the ltdcmd as a tac with TT, torp spread, and APomega or Delta...even beta. does more dmg, and as i see it, tanking stfs is not hard and actually requires only 2 shieldheals and 2 hull heals if you have an engi captain.

honestly i had more success in taking aggro with torpedos...with spread, in the stf case photons [borg] than with fire at will, but that is a matter of taste i guess.

also for CC i use TBR, not Grav well...more effective as an "oh **** there come the nanite spheres" and deal a hell of a lot dmg on stationary unshielded targets...much more than grav well (i also skilled particle generators and TBR synergyzes with APomega)

and why arent you using the heal bot console from the oddy set? and while we are at that, in my opinion the tac oddy would be more suited for fire at will ability...more raw dmg per target than the sci version with sensor analasys.
yes and the field emmiter and the EPS consoles are basically useless, put 2 neutronium and the heal bot cosnoles there instead.

btw, forget team healing...if you tank you tank only...if you have to heal others you are doing something wrong or they are.

so this is what i'm using for elite stf tanking with my engi captain.
use 2 photon torp tubes front+ 2 single phaser cannons mk xii borg and 4 mkxii borg turrets rear.
deflector and engine borg + maco shield MKXII

1 neutronium XI, point defense console, shevron seperation, subspace jump console (change that from time to time with the isomeric charge or the gas cloud console)
1 field generator, assimilated console
3 phaser consoles.

jbmaverick 10-29-2012 04:58 PM

I think you're right about ET3, I rarely use it, maybe I can drop that entirely to add some EWP. I generally don't like mismatching my EPtS ranks, but maybe I could switch out to have a single TSS II and use it with EPtS I and solo EPtS III. That just feels awkward though...

I'll have to compare numbers on the Borg deflector vs the Aegis one, but I have a feeling that the +5 to aux power granted by the Borg model grants less benefit than the skill bonuses offered by the Aegis and MACO deflectors, as far as shield heals go. This should be pretty simple to check, just fly around Starbase 1 and switch between deflectors to see which gets the better values. If the Borg set does in fact have superior heals, then might as well get the 2-piece set bonus to go with it. If not, however, relying on a proc-chance hull heal isn't as good as relying on stronger heals I can use whenever I need them. I'll edit this post after I check the numbers.

Edit: With the Aegis Deflector and my current skills and power levels:
EPtS I: 1414 Shield Heal
TSS II: 692.3 Instant Shield Heal, 197.3/second Shield Heal, 12% Damage Reduction
AtS III: 5189 Hull Heal, +34.7 All Resistances
HE II: 8302.5 Hull Heal over 15 seconds, +14.7 All Resistances
With Borg Deflector and my current skills and power levels:
EPtS I: 1345 Shield Heal
TSS II: 688.6 Instant Shield Heal, 196.2/second Shield Heal, 12.5% Damage Reduction (healing went down, but resistance went up)
AtS III: 5597.3 Hull Heal, +36.3 All Resistances
HE II: 8955.7 Hull Heal over 15 seconds, +15.4 All Resistances
With MACO Deflector and my current skills and power levels:
EPtS I:1418.6 Shield Heal
TSS II: 694.5 Instant Shield Heal, 197.9/second Shield Heal, 12% Damage Reduction
AtS III: 5189.1 Hull Heal, +34.7 All Resistances
HE II: 8302.5 Hull Heal over 15 seconds, +14.7 All Resistances

Hard to say which would be best. Aegis and MACO have better shield healing stats while Borg has better hull healing stats and resistances. Of course, once Season 7 goes live my Borg Deflector will be automatically upgraded to MkXI, giving it better stats than it currently has, although that will likely have no impact on shield healing values. Also the +5 to shield power on the Aegis Deflector does give it some additional shield resistance built-in, so it might come down to which 2-piece set bonus is better, the chance for a hull heal/resistance or a passive defense boost (MACO 2-piece really isn't worth mentioning).

I figured Torpedo Spread would have much the same issue as Cannon Scatter Volley, limited targeting arc, and that it would also be less reliable at dealing damage, as shielded targets will take significantly reduced damage, meaning I'm accumulating less threat. Fire at Will just seems like it would be more reliable. Of course, I'm using Hargh'Pengs which can't be used with any Torpedo abilities anyway, but I may consider switching to Spread if I can find a good weapon to replace them with. Of course that would necessitate another part of my skill respec, I currently have no points at all in Projectile Weapons.

TBR definitely seems more useful when it comes to repelling the Nanite Spheres and Probes, but it's also much more situational. If I happen to be on the wrong side of the target, I obviously can't enable the ability, whereas I can use Gravity Well from any side for the same effect. I flew a few STFs with a fleet member who made good use of TBR for Spheres and Probes, but he also tried to use it against bosses like Donatra, which just made it that much more annoying to destroy them since they would suddenly be moved out of firing range of one or more members of the team. Gravity Well can be used against any target with pretty much no downsides, even if it does less damage (I have no idea about the damage output on these abilities, and I specced for Gravity Well pull strength, not damage).

I tried using the Worker Bee console that came with my Science Odyssey. It turned out to be nearly worthless, the healing effect was negligible, required that my hull already be somewhat low, and I saw them being shot at quite a lot, especially by the Gates in STFs (they were being actively targeted), between intentional fire and AoE damage they were often destroyed before they could do their work. Maybe they were bugged when I first used them, but they didn't seem worth taking up a console slot. Might be time for another try.

I don't actually have the Tactical Odyssey, I initially only got the Science model, and later picked up the Engineering model for Chevron Separation to give me better sustained battlefield mobility. I'm only using my stipend for purchases, so I have to wait a fair amount of time between new ships, and I'd rather buy something different than yet another model of the same ship I already own, besides the fact Sensor Analysis is nearly as good as a third tactical console without needing to actually have said console, giving me more space for other stuff.

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