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-   -   There NEEDS to be a Level Gate to Fleet Missions (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=437191)

hasukurobi 11-06-2012 01:58 PM

There NEEDS to be a Level Gate to Fleet Missions
 
Today I was doing Fleet Starbase Defense and what was our enemy of choice? The Borg... That was bad enough but consider that what we have here are Borg ships Vs. folks in MIRANDAS! I was max level but there were a number who were not.

This happens all the time where you get low level folks in these missions and while it would be fine for them to team together at a lower level against lower level enemies it is very bad when they mix with higher level folks. No matter WHAT you do to boost a Miranda it will NEVER have the power of a lvl 50 in a Tier 5 ship. It will pop fast, deal next to no damage, and have no worthwhile support powers. So essentially you have allowed us to go into battle with ships that may as well not be there instead of actual helpers.

Now understand, this is not a rant against new players at all. It is not their fault they get teamed with higher level folks to battle these outrageous forces. There just NEEDS to be a level lock on these missions so that either everyone who does them NEEDS to be lvl 50 OR they will at least only get paired with folks in their same grade.


On a side Rant though... The enemy ships in these are stupid buffed. I mean I have flown a number of these Klingon ships and they are nowhere near that powerful. Isometric Charge is only that deadly after maxed Attack Pattern Alpha & Omega III with full Particle Generators when it has bounced to its limit as a for instance. The Bortasqu' is a very powerful and tough ship but it does not have shields that have 100's of thousands of hit points per facing that regenerate in the tens of thousands per click. I have never liked the "Cheating" enemy who is just OP for the sake of being OP. I do not mind the Borg being super vicious but can we maybe have the ships we can actually FLY behave the way ours do? Otherwise it begs the question why our ships are so much less powerful.

ashtaku 11-06-2012 02:13 PM

I have really conflicted feelings about this. On one hand, I completely agree with you that the presence of low-tier ships, even when they are level-adjusted, make it hard to win the fleet missions. On the other hand, I like that "realism" of seeing a somewhat representative mix of ships (other than just the high-end tier 5 and lockbox stuff), and I think its important to involve lower-level characters in the fleet content (and not in a "separate but equal" low-level version). If nothing else, playing with experienced captains will help the new players develop important skills earlier in their careers and will expose them to enemies they otherwise would not face.

Maybe a better solution would be to scale the rewards based on the character levels present -- so if you have two Vice Admirals and three LT5s on a Fleet Alert, the game would see that you are doing a 250-level mission with only 115 levels and make the Fleet Mark rewards x2.17. This way, even if you lose the mission because of inadequate DPS, you would be compensated by higher rewards for the early stages.

Or maybe I'm just crazy :eek:

adamkafei 11-06-2012 02:19 PM

In all fairness 3 VAs properly set up for PvE should be able to carry two Mirandas while yes it is annoying as long as the lowbies are a minority it should be ok

Just my 2 ECs

daiouvegeta2 11-06-2012 02:56 PM

Maybe 3 VA tacticals in escorts, but not in cruisers or science ships.

I still don't understand why they just don't scale this damned event like they do with the Mirror Universe event.

nynik 11-06-2012 03:24 PM

Perhaps the real solution lies in refining how lower level players are boosted - because you are right, its not sufficient at the moment. It can actually be rather dull to only have one or two abilities in your miranda while the enemies have significant hitpoint buffers.

Although it would be important to adjust the system in a more innovative ways (as opposed to upper their boosted damage output and HP) so as not to encourage high level players from returning to lower tier ships as a mainstream way of steamrolling content with little effort or button mashing.

I want to continue to see lower level players mix with higher levels - but the rewards need to be attuned to each group and one group should not hamper the other.

bortjinx 11-07-2012 03:02 AM

A couple of comments here...

Battle of Wolf 359. That had Mirandas and the like fighting the Borg alongside Defiants and Sovereigns. Why not in game too?

These are fleet missions. Which means that everyone in a fleet should be able to join in. This will be the reason for allowing Lieutenants on the same map as VAs. Gating people by level will remove a lot of the purpose of these events - allowing fleets to work together the achieve a goal.

dalnar83 11-07-2012 03:15 AM

Level segregation now ? and what next ? sort people by their class? Oh you fly Galaxy, off with you from our fleet mission. Oh you are engineer? Off with you from our fleet mission...

shimmerless 11-07-2012 03:24 AM

Honestly, I'm doing more work than the rest of my team put together by orders of magnitude in these things. I don't really mind if lowbies/alts want to hitch along, I won't even notice anyway.

kagurazaka77 11-07-2012 03:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bortjinx (Post 6442661)
Battle of Wolf 359. That had Mirandas and the like fighting the Borg alongside Defiants and Sovereigns.

And how'd that work out for them? :D

I feel bad for the lowbies when I see them in the fleet mark events as well too. I try and use my ship the best I can (like when I'm in my Armitage I will often assign my fighters to escort one of the lowbies to assist in his DPS since the vast majority of my DPS comes from my cannons anyway).

As people said, you don't want to be mad at them. It's not their fault and I don't want to gate it since I like bortjinx's general concept of the fleet/group all working together, regardless of rank.

But there needs to be more done to help compensate for the fact that low tier ships just cannot handle the number of ships that assault the base, due not to the captain, but due to the lack of consoles, weapon hardpoints and BOff slotting.

At the same time, you don't want to nerf it either and make it a turkey shoot for VAs.

I don't know what the solution is, but it is a problem.

momaw 11-07-2012 03:41 AM

I agree with the basic premise. Low level players are a significant hindrance in these operations. It's not a comment against low-level players, or low-level ships, it's simply a reality of the way the game works that you need tremendous firepower and survivability to do well in end game battles of this scale

The present situation is bad. It should be improved..

A five person mission require that everybody on the team by a strong contributor. So maybe the real solution, if we like variety and the chance for lower levels to participate, is to make the events bigger so each player has a smaller burden to bear. Or to make them work by levels instead of players: maybe the match has a "cumulative level" of 250, and it will keep adding new players until it reaches that. So 5 level 50 players, or 3 level 50s, plus 2 level 35s, plus 2 level 15s. Or maybe even add NPC players to the match to keep the team's total level relevant: low level character brings in a Miranda, the starbase launches a Typhoon class battleship and a wing of Delta Flyers (all respawn) to help you out.


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