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-   -   Something I've noticed about some balance issues (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=465461)

mimey2 11-28-2012 12:18 AM

Something I've noticed about some balance issues
 
Some of the balance issues in the game aren't really the major, obvious ones like...tric mines, SNB DOFFs, and so on. Those are problems of course, being the huge, 'here I am, look at me!' ones, but not always.

Honestly, something that tends to make something unbalanced is more the fact that it's the unintended side effects or such.

Take the Cryo Pulsewave. Introduced as part of the reward on Nukara, right? Pretty simple, meant to be used against the Tholians. What ended up happening is that the cold damage is does, has NO resistance given in any armor except EV suits (which just makes you more weak against other things at that point), so it was, and still is used VERY often to immense effect on one-shotting people with things like Ambush, Stealth Module, etc etc.

SNB DOFFs are in a similar lane, just from a different reason. Awhile back, SNB DOFFs were rare, very rare, and...*in Mr. Dink's voice* VERY expensive. They were seen only once in awhile, maybe one per ship. Extremely powerful, absolutely, OP, sure, but not to the insane degree we've eventually seen now.

But for a week, the old lockboxes dropped, along with some updates to them, including making Cardassian lockboxes potentially drop a rare single DOFF pack, which when opened, could potentially hold an SNB DOFF. So all of a sudden and outta the blue, these things dropped considerably in price, and well...you all know the rest of that story.



Those are just two examples, I am sure there are plenty more on top of that. But yeah, just seems like a good part of the time, the balance issue comes not so much from the things they release, but the unintended things they cause, like a combination of items and/or abilities they probably didn't think about happening.

I'm sure this is something most of ya'll knew of a long time ago, but I thought I would talk about it, since I'd been thinking about it earlier.

webdeath 11-28-2012 12:30 AM

Personally, as fun as this combination is, I have to admit, it does feel abit broken, while of course balanced, it still might be abit scary..

Auxilery to the Battery x2, and Technician Doffs x3.

They put EVERY bridge officer power (Except for Photonic Officer) on it's Global Cool down with repeated uses, including each other!

Use this with something like Eject Warp Plasma, and you seriously start to wonder if perhaps this isn't some form of Voldimort. Sure it isn't really.. But should we be able to keep Eject Warp Plasma CONSTANTLY in effect even BEFORE THE LAST ONE FADES?!

Just imagine what other powers could be used to cause these kinds of nightmares.. Sure there is more testing involved...But imagine Perma Viral Matrix thanks to the new Doffs that turn it into an AOE.. What about Tyken's Rift? Scramble Sensors? Maybe even Jam Sensors as lolsy as that can be?

While I enjoy using the combination, could it actually be a Bug in disguise?

pvehero 11-28-2012 12:45 AM

I really don't see much imbalance in STO... no, I'm serious, I don't...

To break it down, we have at least four kinds of balance.

1. Faction Balance: Fed vs Kling balance
- This is the question of "Do one faction have a general advantage over the other?"
- KDF ships are in general a bit weaker, but with leech and cloak, it's pretty even

2. Captain Class Balance: Tac vs Eng vs Sci
- This is arguably a thorn in our side. This is one part of STO that may be unbalanced.

3. Ability/Counter Balance: Damage/Heal, Debuff/Clear
- This is the question of "if you do X, is there something to answer it with?"
- In general, not too bad

4. Effect vs. Opportunity Cost
- Is this t4 ability stronger than the other t4 abilities, pets, doffs etc.? Is this pet stronger than the other pets? What do you sacrifice by choosing a ship with pets vs what you gain? etc.
- STO errs a lot here, but mostly on the side of caution.
- Boff abilities: Many underpowered, but none significantly overpowered.
- Pets: You can now have pets without significan sacrifices being made. This makes extremely powerful pets available at low cost. Big balance issue.
- Weapon types/variations: Nothing really out of line.

5. Passives: Doffs and captain abilities.
- Captain Traits: Acc and Elusive are out of balance with everything else.
- Doffs: The bar has been raised, and there are no single OP doff. Many underpowered, but that's not a problem.
- Rep system: Remains to be seen.

pvehero 11-28-2012 12:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webdeath (Post 6822351)
Auxilery to the Battery x2, and Technician Doffs x3.

(...)

While I enjoy using the combination, could it actually be a Bug in disguise?

Fun as this is (especially on the vet ship), it comes with extreme opporunity cost...
- 2x Lt boff stations
- 3x doff slots
- Permanently no-power-to-aux.

I think no matter how it's used, the user sacrifice almost as much as he gains. :)

(and I'd hate for them do mess with it, as it opens up a lot of new build combinations!)

dontdrunkimshoot 11-28-2012 02:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webdeath (Post 6822351)
Personally, as fun as this combination is, I have to admit, it does feel abit broken, while of course balanced, it still might be abit scary..

Auxilery to the Battery x2, and Technician Doffs x3.

They put EVERY bridge officer power (Except for Photonic Officer) on it's Global Cool down with repeated uses, including each other!

Use this with something like Eject Warp Plasma, and you seriously start to wonder if perhaps this isn't some form of Voldimort. Sure it isn't really.. But should we be able to keep Eject Warp Plasma CONSTANTLY in effect even BEFORE THE LAST ONE FADES?!

Just imagine what other powers could be used to cause these kinds of nightmares.. Sure there is more testing involved...But imagine Perma Viral Matrix thanks to the new Doffs that turn it into an AOE.. What about Tyken's Rift? Scramble Sensors? Maybe even Jam Sensors as lolsy as that can be?

While I enjoy using the combination, could it actually be a Bug in disguise?

2 AtB doesn't make an escort hit harder, or a heal cruiser heal better, and it only makes 1 sci ship crazy overpowered, but it was overpowered already. it makes tactical focused cruisers better basically, something that has never been ideal. these ships don't out damage escorts, and they certainly don't out heal healers, and 2 copies of EWP have the same kind of up time, theirs no bug there.

adaephondelat 11-28-2012 02:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webdeath (Post 6822351)
Personally, as fun as this combination is, I have to admit, it does feel abit broken, while of course balanced, it still might be abit scary..

Auxilery to the Battery x2, and Technician Doffs x3.

They put EVERY bridge officer power (Except for Photonic Officer) on it's Global Cool down with repeated uses, including each other!

Use this with something like Eject Warp Plasma, and you seriously start to wonder if perhaps this isn't some form of Voldimort. Sure it isn't really.. But should we be able to keep Eject Warp Plasma CONSTANTLY in effect even BEFORE THE LAST ONE FADES?!

Just imagine what other powers could be used to cause these kinds of nightmares.. Sure there is more testing involved...But imagine Perma Viral Matrix thanks to the new Doffs that turn it into an AOE.. What about Tyken's Rift? Scramble Sensors? Maybe even Jam Sensors as lolsy as that can be?

While I enjoy using the combination, could it actually be a Bug in disguise?

I use two atb at my fleet vorcha, and its far from op. It practically doubles all your other powers, but it needs 2 eng and 3 doff slots. And sci powers become pretty useless cause of your constant aux power at zero.

Unbalanced imho are lockbox ships like the holy bug, with hull and shield near a cruiser, great turnrate and top-notch escort powers. They've just become too common. Nearly every PVP pug has one or two of them. I'm not calling for a huge nerf, cause they were, no doubt, costly. Just remove one console or bring down the hp a little bit... ;)

havam 11-28-2012 03:11 AM

IN a normal developing environment there would be a section called QnA that catches these things and prevents them from going live. In STO the systmes team itslef tells you to enjoy exploits while they last, and in doing so violate their own forum rules about advertising exploits. ......

/please hold the line

dalnar83 11-28-2012 03:40 AM

You mean P2W ruined balanced ? *shocked* :eek:

virusdancer 11-28-2012 03:47 AM

AtB... w/ EPtA, EPS PT, Energy Siphon, EPM, etc, etc, etc... there are "issues" - so to speak.

At times you'll have more Aux than you should and at times you'll zero Aux. There are times when the AtB doesn't drain your Aux, but it boosts other power levels as well as the DOFF still triggering.

There are "issues"...

sophlogimo 11-28-2012 04:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pvehero (Post 6822481)
[...]tty even

2. Captain Class Balance: Tac vs Eng vs Sci
- This is arguably a thorn in our side. This is one part of STO that may be unbalanced.
[...]

You mean in a Tac >> Sci > Eng kind of way?


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