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-   -   Any word on being able to cancel reputation projects? (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=466971)

captainmorgan210 11-29-2012 08:55 AM

Any word on being able to cancel reputation projects?
 
Dan mentioned in a recent blog that the devs are investigating the possibility of letting us cancel reputation projects. I have a Romulan project that I'm unable to complete because it won't let me contribute Peregrine Fighters and has a very high DOFF requirement. I have two Omega projects I want to cancel because they both want more dilithium than I'm prepared to give (obviously these were started before last weeks patch). So far on Tribble there is no ability to cancel. Is being able to cancel projects still something we can look forward to? I really don't want to bite the bullet and finish the Omega projects; and the Romulan project I'm not capable of completing even if I wanted to.

Also, assuming we do get the ability to cancel projects, will we get the resources we already put into them back?

borticuscryptic 11-29-2012 10:13 AM

The ability to cancel a project was never built into the system. In case it's not obvious, the Reputation System is using the same basic technology as the Fleet Project system, and we specifically did not intend for Fleet Projects to be cancelled as it could allow for a fleet's leadership to potentially screw over its players (intentionally or not).

Since Reputations are personal, the only person that could be affected by cancelling a project is you. It's less of a concern in that case, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a fundamental alteration of the software.

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainmorgan210 (Post 6844801)
Also, assuming we do get the ability to cancel projects, will we get the resources we already put into them back?

No, the items are destroyed/discarded/gone-forever at the moment you hit Contribute, and are converted into a simple numeric that tracks how many items have been contributed to that particular "bucket" of goods. As such, cancelling a project would refund you nothing, other than freeing up the project slot.

ussultimatum 11-29-2012 10:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borticuscryptic (Post 6846061)
...we specifically did not intend for Fleet Projects to be cancelled as it could allow for a fleet's leadership to potentially screw over its players (intentionally or not).

Conversely not allowing them to be canceled has the potential to do the same thing with projects like the special projects that may languish, quite literally, for weeks on end or for assignments with requirements the fleet is struggling to meet. (One of the fleets I'm in has had the same special project up with little to no movement for almost 2 months as the members simply are unable to keep up with the standard projects much less special projects for decorative things).

On top of this there is nothing that forces fleet leaders to divy out provisions or grant access to anything.

This is because bad fleet leaders will most likely lose their fleet members due to their actions.


Why shouldn't that be the case with canceling projects as well (effectively allowing Fleets to police themselves on this issue)?

dma1986 11-29-2012 10:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captainmorgan210 (Post 6844801)
it won't let me contribute Peregrine Fighters

Sure you're trying to use the right ones? You need the hangars bought from the shipyard.


Quote:

Originally Posted by borticuscryptic (Post 6846061)
we specifically did not intend for Fleet Projects to be cancelled as it could allow for a fleet's leadership to potentially screw over its players (intentionally or not).

I thought it was Cryptic's policy to stay out of intra-fleet politics?

Even if it's not, I have to politely disagree with your stance of not allowing the entire community access to a feature because it may be abused by a small minority, and those fleet leaders that do abuse it will soon find themselves alone in their fleet.

lostusthorn 11-29-2012 10:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borticuscryptic (Post 6846061)
The ability to cancel a project was never built into the system. In case it's not obvious, the Reputation System is using the same basic technology as the Fleet Project system, and we specifically did not intend for Fleet Projects to be cancelled as it could allow for a fleet's leadership to potentially screw over its players (intentionally or not).

Since Reputations are personal, the only person that could be affected by cancelling a project is you. It's less of a concern in that case, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a fundamental alteration of the software.



No, the items are destroyed/discarded/gone-forever at the moment you hit Contribute, and are converted into a simple numeric that tracks how many items have been contributed to that particular "bucket" of goods. As such, cancelling a project would refund you nothing, other than freeing up the project slot.

If i may suggest,
Materials don't need to be refunded. Instead of a contribution pool for the fleet, or character. If a project gets canceled, transfer the material invested so far in the projected into the contribution pool. And if a new project gets started the project automatically feeds first from he contribution pool, then opens up normal contribution.
Might even want to consider to allow direct contribution into the contribution pool. giving the normal fleet credits. That way there will be no race to fill the project contributions to gain fleet credits. Just contribute, and when a new project gets started it will fill itself from the pool of resources provided.

lordhavelock 11-29-2012 10:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borticuscryptic (Post 6846061)
...As such, cancelling a project would refund you nothing, other than freeing up the project slot.

Ouch. :eek:

herbie1966 11-29-2012 10:55 AM

In other words...

Dan was talking out of his proverbial back-end and this will never be implemented.

At least this time we got notice early on.

hrisvalar 11-29-2012 11:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lostusthorn (Post 6846641)
If i may suggest,
Materials don't need to be refunded. Instead of a contribution pool for the fleet, or character. If a project gets canceled, transfer the material invested so far in the projected into the contribution pool. And if a new project gets started the project automatically feeds first from he contribution pool, then opens up normal contribution.
Might even want to consider to allow direct contribution into the contribution pool. giving the normal fleet credits. That way there will be no race to fill the project contributions to gain fleet credits. Just contribute, and when a new project gets started it will fill itself from the pool of resources provided.

Not doable with the current values for the different inputs. Just open any project that requires a 'large' sum of Expertise, and fill that one category up. The project will be instantly labeled as 90% complete. Now cancel that, reduce the input values to a generic contribution number, and start a cosmetic project. 180,000 Free Dilithium?

That refunding stuff from fleet projects is a problem, to either the fleet or the original contributors, isn't news. I'll do you one better, and give you an exploit for them to hide behind: Take this same Expertise project, start it, dump in the 'valuable' expertise and collect 1600 fleet credits for 40,000 expertise. Cancel project and restart. Rinse and repeat. 'Free' Fleet Credits.

No refunds are acceptable, though. And as for the exploit, or abusive fleet leadership, the solution is simple: Projects (that aren't filled and actively counting down toward completion) may be canceled no sooner than 7 days after they've been slotted in. All they have to do then is add a project selection timestamp, if there isn't one in there already anyway, and we're completely out of the woods.

adorkabledori 11-29-2012 11:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by borticuscryptic (Post 6846061)
The ability to cancel a project was never built into the system. In case it's not obvious, the Reputation System is using the same basic technology as the Fleet Project system, and we specifically did not intend for Fleet Projects to be cancelled as it could allow for a fleet's leadership to potentially screw over its players (intentionally or not).

Since Reputations are personal, the only person that could be affected by cancelling a project is you. It's less of a concern in that case, but that doesn't change the fact that it's a fundamental alteration of the software.



No, the items are destroyed/discarded/gone-forever at the moment you hit Contribute, and are converted into a simple numeric that tracks how many items have been contributed to that particular "bucket" of goods. As such, cancelling a project would refund you nothing, other than freeing up the project slot.

Yet, it would be great to have a "cancel" option upon project. For example, our fleet is suffering with a project, like the OP has, that is bugged. Sadly, after that each fleet member (+400 members) has filed in a bug report, that project is still up and blocking our progress as fleet.

Now, a cancel option would have our fleet "owner" given the opportunity to remove that bugged project, instead of becoming such frustrated that he voiced his opinion upon this boards in such way that he got banned from it. Sad to say, but that is the result of the incompetence from your side.

lostusthorn 11-29-2012 11:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hrisvalar (Post 6847181)
Not doable with the current values for the different inputs. Just open any project that requires a 'large' sum of Expertise, and fill that one category up. The project will be instantly labeled as 90% complete. Now cancel that, reduce the input values to a generic contribution number, and start a cosmetic project. 180,000 Free Dilithium?

That refunding stuff from fleet projects is a problem, to either the fleet or the original contributors, isn't news. I'll do you one better, and give you an exploit for them to hide behind: Take this same Expertise project, start it, dump in the 'valuable' expertise and collect 1600 fleet credits for 40,000 expertise. Cancel project and restart. Rinse and repeat. 'Free' Fleet Credits.

No refunds are acceptable, though. And as for the exploit, or abusive fleet leadership, the solution is simple: Projects (that aren't filled and actively counting down toward completion) may be canceled no sooner than 7 days after they've been slotted in. All they have to do then is add a project selection timestamp, if there isn't one in there already anyway, and we're completely out of the woods.

That is very simple to avoid, do not just fill the contribution pool with a generic value. Fill it with the number of items that where put into it in the first place.

Cancel a project that puts 1000 dil, 2000 expertise, 100 data samples into the pool, your pool has then the same amount of items in it. And starting a project would first fill it self up from the pool, so no fill project, cancel, start and fill again to generate cheap credits. Sicne it will fill itself first from the already contributed parts.


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