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-   -   How come Elite's are not gated? (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=472821)

candarie 12-04-2012 02:36 AM

How come Elite's are not gated?
 
In most other games, to enter the "Elite" mode of content you have to unlock access somehow. Usually by participating in a trial or other game test to make sure you have met the minimum threshold to be in the encounter.

A door blocking boss that requires a minimum DPS or does a certain level of damage that you must be able to survive, for example. Perhaps a team event that unlocks access for everyone on the team if they can defeat it, set to about the same difficulty as the content it unlocks.

Pretty much every other MMO does this so that the players who are playing this content can be assured that anyone else playing at least has the core mechanical ability to participate, even if their player skills may be lacking.

How come we don't have anything like this in STO?

adrianm63 12-04-2012 02:41 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candarie (Post 6919331)
How come we don't have anything like this in STO?

Because:


Quote:

Originally Posted by candarie (Post 6919331)
A door blocking boss that requires a minimum DPS or does a certain level of damage that you must be able to survive, for example. Perhaps a team event that unlocks access for everyone on the team if they can defeat it, set to about the same difficulty as the content it unlocks.

You cant get much dps from sci ships or builds(space or ground) that are made for debuff not dps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by candarie (Post 6919331)
Pretty much every other MMO does this so that the players who are playing this content can be assured that anyone else playing at least has the core mechanical ability to participate, even if their player skills may be lacking.

strategy is more important than anything.You cant test that unless you have someone paid to look at how you play and unlock the elite mode.

sollvax 12-04-2012 02:42 AM

But then in STO "elite" means "vain" in many cases

candarie 12-04-2012 03:03 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrianm63 (Post 6919381)
Because:

You cant get much dps from sci ships or builds(space or ground) that are made for debuff not dps.

So how come these debuff players wouldn't be able to beat a team event but they would be able to defeat the elites that would be unlocked by that event?

I've defeated many of these type of gates in other games with characters that did zero dps period. Why is this not possible here?

Quote:

strategy is more important than anything.You cant test that unless you have someone paid to look at how you play and unlock the elite mode.
Understood, but not the point of this thread nor a part of the question I asked. Please see ".. be assured that anyone else playing at least has the core mechanical ability to participate, even if their player skills may be lacking."

This type of gating is to fend off players that don't use their abilities at all, or who don't have the appropriate core mechanics to be participating (a lieutenant ship, white equipment, empty equipment slots, etc)

adrianm63 12-04-2012 03:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candarie (Post 6919541)
So how come these debuff players wouldn't be able to beat a team event but they would be able to defeat the elites that would be unlocked by that event?

debuff player is not debuff team.You can have 4 tac and 1 sci.How are you going to test all these variables?

Quote:

Originally Posted by candarie (Post 6919541)
Understood, but not the point of this thread nor a part of the question I asked. Please see ".. be assured that anyone else playing at least has the core mechanical ability to participate, even if their player skills may be lacking."

This type of gating is to fend off players that don't use their abilities at all, or who don't have the appropriate core mechanics to be participating (a lieutenant ship, white equipment, empty equipment slots, etc)

at level 50 you cant get a lieutenant ship into pve missions iirc.
You can finish all elite pve missions with white equipment if your team knows what to do.

candarie 12-04-2012 03:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrianm63 (Post 6919591)
debuff player is not debuff team.You can have 4 tac and 1 sci.How are you going to test all these variables?

Testing all variables is not necessary, nor proposed by my question. You are again introducing additional strawmen to attack.

Quote:

at level 50 you cant get a lieutenant ship into pve missions iirc.
I am unaware of any restrictions other than that you can't bring your shuttle. You can definitely get a non-VA ship into PvE elites as of today. Do you have any documentation to support your claim?

EDIT: http://flic.kr/p/dyrep6 This is me with a Lt. ship in an Elite as of a few minutes ago. With empty gear, and no bridge officers equipped.

Quote:

You can finish all elite pve missions with white equipment if your team knows what to do.
That it is possible for the very best players to accomplish this as some kind of challenge, does not negate the value of a baseline entry for your typical play experience with an unknown group.

adrianm63 12-04-2012 03:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by candarie (Post 6919741)
You are again introducing additional strawmen to attack.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Paranoia

Quote:

Originally Posted by candarie (Post 6919741)
Do you have any documentation to support your claim?

Yes I have 4kg of documentation in my personal archive :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by candarie (Post 6919741)
That it is possible for the very best players to accomplish this as some kind of challenge, does not negate the value of a baseline entry for your typical play experience with an unknown group.


the unknown group is not and will never be an option.Its a mmo and you should have some people who know how to play and join with you .Also fleets exist for teh same reason.If you join random people you deserve to fail or win by playing for all 5.

candarie 12-04-2012 03:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrianm63 (Post 6919781)
Yes I have 4kg of documentation in my personal archive :rolleyes:

Excellent! I've added a screenshot to the earlier reply. Looking forward to yours!

cormoran 12-04-2012 03:41 AM

Moar Elitism!!!

vitzh 12-04-2012 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adrianm63 (Post 6919381)
Because:




You cant get much dps from sci ships or builds(space or ground) that are made for debuff not dps.



strategy is more important than anything.You cant test that unless you have someone paid to look at how you play and unlock the elite mode.

Funny, I can get 3k average a beam on my science ship working with teammates.... with an average of nearly 1.5-2k a beam on my own. It actually isn't impossible to even get fed cruisers to 8k dps but the chances of them wanting to listen to your advise is slim. How do I do know how to do this? PvP.


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