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-   -   Subnuke Countermeasure (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=499691)

alexindcobra 12-29-2012 12:18 PM

Subnuke Countermeasure
 
Why haven't they come up with a counter for Subnuke ability? Science team presently is not a real good counter and here is why; Subnuke power debuffs all powers being used on a shi and puts them in a long cooldown state. A timer is set to how long the affect last. When you activate Science team, it undo the timer and reset the buff powers to normal cooldown but it does not reactivate the buff that wer turned off. Without buffs activated a ship can not tank or last long against high DPS. The Devs need to give Science team the ability to reactivate the turned off buffs with the remaining time it had before it was deactivated. Any ideas or do you think they need to come up with a totally new power for this?

mb52 12-29-2012 12:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexindcobra (Post 7279371)
*snip*

Considering how badly nerfed SCI powers are already... let SCIs have this one thing.

majortiraomega 12-29-2012 01:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexindcobra (Post 7279371)
Why haven't they come up with a counter for Subnuke ability? Science team presently is not a real good counter and here is why; Subnuke power debuffs all powers being used on a shi and puts them in a long cooldown state. A timer is set to how long the affect last. When you activate Science team, it undo the timer and reset the buff powers to normal cooldown but it does not reactivate the buff that wer turned off. Without buffs activated a ship can not tank or last long against high DPS. The Devs need to give Science team the ability to reactivate the turned off buffs with the remaining time it had before it was deactivated. Any ideas or do you think they need to come up with a totally new power for this?

I don't think you understand the point of Subnuke beam. It counters fully buffed ships, be it escorts or cruisers. It does this by removing the buffs and destroying power recharge levels. If you make it so science team rebuffs the ship....yeah....the ability is now effectively useless. Think of it this way, what is the point of a buff counter ability with a 2.5 minute cooldown if it can be instantly cleared and the buffs restored by an ability with a 15-30 second cooldown. The science officer's sensor scan can also be cleared with science team, making a science captain's two most powerful abilities clearable with a single press of a button. And let's not forget that about a third of the science bridge officer powers are cleared by science team.

The trick is to learn to counter the counter. When fighting a cruiser, a science officer is waiting for the perfect moment to hit them with subnuke beam. Learn to keep your heals on two or even three separate cycles so that you aren't hung out to dry when the beam hits you. Also, if you can bluff them and make them hit it early, then you can clear it with minimal damage to your heal cycle.

momaw 12-29-2012 02:51 PM

Subnuke beam doesn't need any counters because it's almost useless. Enemies are resistant due to insane hitpoint and shield levels, NOT because they are running abilities that can be turned off. Couple with a long cooldown just to make sure you can't use it frequently enough to veto much of the Heavy Torpedo or Fire At Will the enemy might want to use on you. Science captain abilities are mostly pretty good, but Subnuke is a joke. This ability needs massive buffs, not countermeasures.

Welcome to PVE, which is where the huge majority of players live. :)

alexindcobra 12-29-2012 03:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majortiraomega (Post 7280351)
I don't think you understand the point of Subnuke beam. It counters fully buffed ships, be it escorts or cruisers. It does this by removing the buffs and destroying power recharge levels. If you make it so science team rebuffs the ship....yeah....the ability is now effectively useless. Think of it this way, what is the point of a buff counter ability with a 2.5 minute cooldown if it can be instantly cleared and the buffs restored by an ability with a 15-30 second cooldown. The science officer's sensor scan can also be cleared with science team, making a science captain's two most powerful abilities clearable with a single press of a button. And let's not forget that about a third of the science bridge officer powers are cleared by science team.

The trick is to learn to counter the counter. When fighting a cruiser, a science officer is waiting for the perfect moment to hit them with subnuke beam. Learn to keep your heals on two or even three separate cycles so that you aren't hung out to dry when the beam hits you. Also, if you can bluff them and make them hit it early, then you can clear it with minimal damage to your heal cycle.

You don't understand the Balance of the game. Everything has a counter except Subnuke beam. Do not try to make Science Captains seem so poor and deprived of abilities, especially, now that they have the Wells and Mobius classes that are built like escorts blasting everyone away with DHC's and temperal weapons. It not like Subnuke is exclusive to non-cannon firing ships.

baudl 12-29-2012 04:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexindcobra (Post 7282001)
You don't understand the Balance of the game. Everything has a counter except Subnuke beam. Do not try to make Science Captains seem so poor and deprived of abilities, especially, now that they have the Wells and Mobius classes that are built like escorts blasting everyone away with DHC's and temperal weapons. It not like Subnuke is exclusive to non-cannon firing ships.

srsly, ALL your previous post suggest that you have not even the slightest idea of this game and it's mechanics...
this post is just another example for it.
subnuke is the only reason to actually consider playing a sci in PVP...

and subnuke was already used by "cannon" ships before the mobius (wells is not even remotely build like an escort, just another misconception of yours)

i don't even know why i respond to this post, you made up your mind, and the next pages will only illustrate how little you know about STO and how convinced you are that your opinion is the best.

alexindcobra 12-29-2012 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baudl (Post 7282061)
Buzzz. Buzzz. Buzzzz.

What was that, buzzing in my ear?

majortiraomega 12-29-2012 04:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexindcobra (Post 7282001)
You don't understand the Balance of the game. Everything has a counter except Subnuke beam. Do not try to make Science Captains seem so poor and deprived of abilities, especially, now that they have the Wells and Mobius classes that are built like escorts blasting everyone away with DHC's and temperal weapons. It not like Subnuke is exclusive to non-cannon firing ships.

If subnuke beam doesn't have a counter, then why does science team remove it, hmm? The ability requires still to use properly and another player can bluff a science officer into using it. Asking for the reversion of subnuke buff stripping after science team deployment is like asking for a buff to subsystem power after engineering team is used to restore the disable subsystem debuff. After all, the player needs to be compensated for the drop in power for that time period. That's not how the game works, you need to learn to cope with debuffs rather than asking for them to be nerfed.

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexindcobra (Post 7282161)
Quote:

Originally Posted by baudl (Post 7282061)
srsly, ALL your previous post suggest that you have not even the slightest idea of this game and it's mechanics...
this post is just another example for it.
subnuke is the only reason to actually consider playing a sci in PVP...

and subnuke was already used by "cannon" ships before the mobius (wells is not even remotely build like an escort, just another misconception of yours)

i don't even know why i respond to this post, you made up your mind, and the next pages will only illustrate how little you know about STO and how convinced you are that your opinion is the best.

What was that, buzzing in my ear?

And this post demonstrates your true attitude toward this discussion. The evil science officer subnuked me while I was running Reverse Shield Polarity, Emergency Power to Shields, Rotate Shield Frequency, Auxiliary to SIF, and Transfer Shield Strength all at the same time. I want those buffs back now!!!

Yeah....I see cryptic making this change sometime soon. To be blunt, if you are going to make a thread asking for a nerf on subnuke, you need to actually discuss the points brought up. "Because there is no counter" has already been proved false, as even you admitted that science team clears the ability. Yes, no buffs puts a ship in a vulnerable state, but that is what the ability is supposed to do.

alexindcobra 12-29-2012 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by majortiraomega (Post 7282381)
If subnuke beam doesn't have a counter, then why does science team remove it, hmm? The ability requires still to use properly and another player can bluff a science officer into using it. Asking for the reversion of subnuke buff stripping after science team deployment is like asking for a buff to subsystem power after engineering team is used to restore the disable subsystem debuff. After all, the player needs to be compensated for the drop in power for that time period. That's not how the game works, you need to learn to cope with debuffs rather than asking for them to be nerfed.

You must of not read the first post, because I have explained what Science team does and doesn't do.

baudl 12-29-2012 04:57 PM

how all alexindcobra posts function: alexindcobra was beat up heavily in PVP...he thinks it was due to some ability being OP or the other guy cheating...comes to forum, whines about it and states what is wrong with the game in his opinion...ALL other people in the post disagree with his statement, try to explain what he should have done better...he ignores it, and over time everybody loses interest in the post.

this one is no exception
You can't even consider him a troll, since he genuinly thinks he is right


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