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-   -   Idea - Change to space weapon ranges (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=501771)

berniestompa 12-31-2012 04:07 PM

Idea - Change to space weapon ranges
 
Couldn't find a forum for ideas and such so here goes.

My biggest gripe in space combat has always been the range of weapons. 10km is an extremely close range in star trek. In fact the Picard maneuver can only realy work from a distance of 1 light second, approximately 300k km distance.

Whilst this would be more realistic from a canon perspective I am not suggesting Cryptic up the range to 300km.

What I am suggesting is a slight increase but not across the board. I believe that torpedos should have extreme ranges, they can be fired, and sustain, at warp speeds. Beam arrays should be the next longest followed by banks and then cannons. Maybe something along the lines of 30km for torps, 25km beams, 20km banks and 10km cannon.


I think that this would bring up some interesting tactics in PvP and would allow, support ships to stay at the back. I can also see a distinct benefit in PvE side of things.

If this is coupled with a tweak to each of the weapons so that they have trouble targetting closer ships ie, Beams have higher chance to hit targets at 10km, this could be a very interesting change to the game.

Any case, if any one would like to chime in, discuss.

Regards,

tvlar 12-31-2012 04:36 PM

Interesting idea, would definitely make things different.

The current range limit of 10 km is only part of the situation.
DHC's experience a dropoff in DPS after 2 km from target, and beams from 4km
10 km is not just the maximum targetable range, but also the point at which you may as well be
shooting blanks.

If you get an increase in range, I'd be looking for an increase in speed, to be able to close to optimum DPS range in shorter time. :)

archofwinter 12-31-2012 05:12 PM

This sounds more dynamic. I like it!

Make torpedo launched at the suggested 30km more easier to dodge/miss than those fired at 10.
Beam banks does more damage close up.

hereticknight085 12-31-2012 11:49 PM

The only way to make this balanced would be to have MAJOR accuracy drop-offs on all weapons past a certain point. I.E. Torps would lose at most 60% accuracy if fired at maximum range, beams 50%, DBBs 50%, cannons 50%, or something like that. And that would have to be a fast and MAJOR drop, say with beams they work fine until 15km, then their accuracy drops by 10% for each set of 2.5 km (I.E 17.5km -10%, 20km -20%), and then a 15% drop-off for each following 2.5 km (I.E 22.5 km - 35%, 25 km -50%). That would be the only way to make it fair in addition to the major MAJOR drop-off in damage on everything that wasn't a projectile, since if you think about it, as you increase range, energy cohesion decreases, so the bolts/beams become less concentrated and as such are far less effective. And this should be an exponential decrease as well.

berniestompa 01-01-2013 12:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hereticknight085 (Post 7308241)
The only way to make this balanced would be to have MAJOR accuracy drop-offs on all weapons past a certain point. I.E. Torps would lose at most 60% accuracy if fired at maximum range, beams 50%, DBBs 50%, cannons 50%, or something like that. And that would have to be a fast and MAJOR drop, say with beams they work fine until 15km, then their accuracy drops by 10% for each set of 2.5 km (I.E 17.5km -10%, 20km -20%), and then a 15% drop-off for each following 2.5 km (I.E 22.5 km - 35%, 25 km -50%). That would be the only way to make it fair in addition to the major MAJOR drop-off in damage on everything that wasn't a projectile, since if you think about it, as you increase range, energy cohesion decreases, so the bolts/beams become less concentrated and as such are far less effective. And this should be an exponential decrease as well.

Well I would think that the drop off in damage/hit chance should be alot less than wha you are suggesting. However, the skills that are already in place to make you harder to hit should be looked at.

I do think that projectiles should be much easier to hit with at longer range. At longer ranges the projectile has more time to make adjustments to its course, where as close in this time would be decreased dramatically.

hereticknight085 01-01-2013 12:35 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by berniestompa (Post 7308371)
Well I would think that the drop off in damage/hit chance should be alot less than wha you are suggesting. However, the skills that are already in place to make you harder to hit should be looked at.

I do think that projectiles should be much easier to hit with at longer range. At longer ranges the projectile has more time to make adjustments to its course, where as close in this time would be decreased dramatically.

The direct counter to this being that the farther away a projectile, the more time it's target has to dodge. Again harder to do from closer in.

And unless you have the damage and accuracy drop-off that are extreme like that, this game will soon become just cruisers using BAs and TBRs, or sci torp boats doing the same thing, only with maxed out Aux, since torps don't use weapons power. Imagine a FRSV using TBR1, 2, and 3 armed with 3 purple proj weapons officers and transphasics/quantums. You will never even come close to touching that. Ever. Completely removing the ability to use DHCs and any other weapon with range shorter than that.

warpangel 01-02-2013 08:38 AM

The ranges are what they are because otherwise we would be just shooting into the distance, with nothing more than a HUD indicator to show there is even anything there.

They may have talked about weapons having thousands of kilometers' range in ST, but we still see the ships fighting in visual range all the time. This is because shooting into empty space is boring.

tpalelena 01-02-2013 09:08 AM

Agreed. It would be just shooting at a dot in the distance.

archofwinter 01-02-2013 09:27 PM

I feel like there should be exception for some special ships.
In the Armada games, Steamrunners are long range siege ships.
So give them one fore weapon slot where if the player equip a torpedo there, it will gain higher accuracy when snipping a target, but it will have a longer cool down time for 'recalculating targeting sensor.'

baudl 01-02-2013 11:50 PM

i generally like the idea too, and the drop off is certainly a thing to be balanced out in the field. But the maps would also need to be huge, otherwise you wouldn't need to move away from your position once entering a map.

i also think the distances are too much, cut cannons down to 6 km, beams 10, torps 15...like that combat stays within a less than 18 km radius
the 10 km for cannons feel strange anyway, when the shots start to follow the target :confused:
at a maximum range of only 6, that wouldn't happen too much. Also escorts would allways need to be in the deadly zone of an NPC (ESTFs) and therefore need a tank/healer to back them up.

PS: further an speed increase for all torpedos would be needed...otherwise you may windup overtaking each and every torpedo you fired.


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