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-   -   My Vesta is making me sad (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=507951)

trellabor 01-07-2013 11:30 AM

My Vesta is making me sad
 
My Vesta is making me sad, probably because I either suck at flying it properly or am not fitting it properly. I'm not ready to say the ship is terrible because I don't think it is, I had fun when I first got it but lately it just seems to get owned real bad. I've tried swapping some things but this is what I'm running most recently(FYI I'm a Tac and this is the Recon model);

Fore: 2xAux DHC, 1xFleet Quantum Torpedo

Aft: 2xPhaser Turret(or 1xBeam Array and 1xturret), 1xWide Angle Quantum Torpedo

Paratrinic Shields, Positron Deflector(structural), MACO engines

Consoles: 1xQuantum focus phaser, 1xIsometric Charge, 1xAssimilated, 1xTachyokinetic, 1xAero Point, 1xNeutronium, 1xMonotanium, 3xPhaser Relay, 1xZero Point Quantum

Hanger: Advanced Peregrine Fighters


BoFF's: CRF2, THY2, TT1, TS1, BO1/FAW1(if i have the beam in back)
Eng Team 2, EPtS1, PH1, TracBeam2, Tyken2, GravWell2

Sometimes i change out the Sci for TracBeam1, PH2, TST3, and TracBeamRepulse3

I get frustrated trying to do my own damage and stay alive while trying to watch how many Peregrines I have out and keep up with launching more....my fighters end up just getting owned by everything and in the mean time I'm getting chewed apart. Makes for a frustrating experience, but I must be doing something wrong here. Help!?

tcostik 01-07-2013 12:35 PM

You're really all over the map in terms of weapons and boff abilities. Generally speaking, if you're using DHCs, you should have turrets in the back. If you have the turn rate to keep DHCs on target, then you want turrets, as they provide 360 degrees of firing arc. That means more forward facing DPS. You're losing out a ton with the launcher and the beam array.

I would go with:
2x Aux Phaser DHCs, 1x Quantum torp
2x Phaser Turrets [ACC], and a cutting beam, or 3 turrets

The cutting beam might be preferable, since it's kinetic damage, and has 360 degree arcs. Once you dedicate yourself to an all beam or all cannon build, then you can start adding in boff abilities. I would take a look at torp spread, high yield, scatter volley and rapid fire. Scatter volley and torp spread are good for engaging multiple targets at once, which rapid fire and high yield are great for one on one. Which set you should go with will depend on what role you're playing.

Your consoles are also all over. I would dump the torp console, and add in another phaser console. You have more phaser weapons, so more consoles for that energy type give you a greater return on investment. For engineering, I would run 2x Neutronium. Monotanium isn't bad, but it only protects against kinetic. Two Neutroniums won't give as much damage, but it'll cover more damage overall. For your science, get a couple field gens. They'll really help, especially since you should have some shield healing boff abilities. As for the last two slots, I would throw in whatever will help the high end sci abilities you have. IE, particle generator, graviton, etc.

Finally, dump the advanced peregrines. Check out some elite hangers, or better yet, if you have Romulan T5, get the ultra-rare scorpion fighters. They come with HY1, and are awesome. Your aux power should be high in a sci vessel, so you should be able to just spam and forget them.

I can't really comment on your engines, shield, and deflector choices, as I'm not sure how they relate to your build. Generally, look for stuff that boosts whatever role you're going for. I will say the fleet stores have some really nice gear, though you'll lose out on the three piece bonuses. Hope this helps.

majortiraomega 01-07-2013 12:46 PM

If you want the vesta to run very well, you need to run the ship like a science ship. If you plan on running a science vessel, then you want to have a 9 in flow capacitors and at least a 6 in Gravitation Generators, Particle Generators, and sometimes Subspace Decompiler (only if you use viral matrix). Also consider putting at least 6 points into Power Insulators to protect against energy drain/shield drain attacks.

I would suggest trying this build:

Weapons fore:
1x Aux DHC, 1x Phaser Dual Beam Bank (you have subsystem targetting. It's hard to use it if the weapon is aft facing), 1x Quantum Torpedo.
Weapons aft:
2x Phaser turret, 1x Quantum Torpedo/Mine

Deflector:
Assimilated Deflector Array
Engine:
Assimilated Subtranswarp Engines
Shield:
M.A.C.O. Resilient Shield Array Mk XII

Engineering Consoles:
Engineering - Neutronium Alloy x2

Science Consoles:
Console - Universal - Assimilated Module
Console - Universal - Tachyokinetic Converter
Science - Emitter Array Mk XII
Science - Particle Generator (see below)*

Tactical Consoles:
Tactical - Phaser Relay x4

Bridge Officer layout:
Commander Science:
Science Team I, Hazard Emitters II, Transfer Shield Strength III, Gravity Well III
Lt. Commander Universal - Science:
Polarize Hull I/Hazard Emitters I(your preference), Tractor Beam II, Tractor Beam Repulsors II
Lt. Engineering:
Emergency Power to Shields I, Auxiliary to SIF I
Ensign Universal - Tactical:
Torpedo High Yield I (or spread)
Lt. Tactical:
Tactical Team I, Beam Overload II

Power Levels:
(6 points in warp core potential and efficiency)
Weapons power: 70 (6 points in weapons efficiency)
Shields: 25 (6 points in shield efficiency)
Engines: 25 (3 points in engine efficiency)
Auxiliary: 80 (6 points in auxiliary efficiency)

This build would be your control build setup. It is very effective at stopping borg ship from reaching their destination and deals a moderate amount of shield piercing damage. By running only one aux dual heavy cannon, there is no power drain on the auxiliary subsystem. Due to running only three weapons power weapons, the weapons power drain will be minimal.

However, this build is not designed to be a high damage dealer. Science vessels can never compete with an escort in the raw firepower area. If you try to do that, you will fail, the ship only has six weapons slots. However, if you drop Tractor Beam II for Tachyon Beam II, Tractor Beam Repulsors II for Charged Particle Burst II, Gravity Well III for Viral Matrix III, and the particle generators console for a flow capacitors console, you will effectively have a shield disable build. You can cripple enemy ships if you add in x3 System Engineer duty officers to buff viral matrix.

jadensecura 01-07-2013 01:04 PM

First off, drop the fore and aft torps, you want 3xAux DHC in the front, and your rear weapons need to be turrets, the Cutting Beam, and maybe one beam array (for Target Subsystems) or mine. Remember, defense doesn't matter for PvE, keeping your weapons on target does, so pick a spot and sit there, maybe going at 1 click of speed forward and back, which leaves rear weapons useless unless they can fire forward. Then pick up a Jem or other Resilient shield, going covariant on a sci ship isn't a great choice, and especially not Paratrinic, which is covariant but even more so. Forget the armor, it just doesn't help significantly with so little hull strength, that'll give you room for some sci consoles like a Field Generator or Particle Generator.

For abilities, it looks like you've made all the universals Tac and are running no heals in Sci slots and only a single EPtS. Even being generous and assuming you have CSV1 in the Lt. Tac slot you didn't account for, I'm not at all surprised that you're unimpressed. First thing, make the Ens. Uni Eng, and put an EPtS1 there, 2 copies of EPtS are huge. Drop the ET2 and get A2SIF1 instead, with max Aux that's very powerful and has a shorter cooldown than ET and won't interfere with anything else. Drop the Tractor2 for HE2 and the PH1 for TSS1 (with the above tactics you obviously don't need PH), and put TT1 and CSV1 on your Lt. Tac. Now the question is how wedded you are to that LtC. Tac. If you really want it you can do TT1, CSV1, APB2 on it, that's the best use of it I can see. If not, use it for Sci, get another HE and then take your pick of ST, TSS, PSW, CPB, and even Siphon, VM, and Tractor Beam.

My current build uses those principles, and gets 4.2-4.8k DPS over an STF, while rarely dying, and seldom without taking a hit in excess of 20k. It's here, with equipment in Notes: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...=Secura04_2511

EDIT: Forgot to mention, don't worry about watching your fighters, just spam them as they come off CD, they'll almost certainly be dead. And for power levels make sure your Aux is near max, then dump the rest into Shields, Weapons should be set to 25 because that's not where your damage is coming from, and Engines usually isn't that important. You could keep a setting with minimum Shields and high Engines just in case you find yourself in a high mobility role, maybe covering multiple lanes in KASE or CSE.

andoriansrus 01-07-2013 02:13 PM

really if I am using DHC's I should be using turrets ??? and thereby giving away one advantage the ship has ?


I roll my eyes every time I see someone preaching turrets for a science ship. Cannons combined with turrets are GREAT for a tactical officer but not so much for a Science Officer.

I run my build for the vestas in ESTF's and PVP and I have NEVER strapped a turret to it why would I want to give up FREE subsystem targeting.... my build uses 3 Aux DHC's forward and 2 beam arrays and a mine launcher aft... and not a single gimmick console that did not come with the Vesta 3-pack and it works just fine... alternately I have been experimenting with a Romulan Refit of my Vesta which shows great promise....


remember its about what you are specced to do, not what gimmicks you can pack on the ship...

dauntlessf05 01-07-2013 02:48 PM

I know this might be a stupid suggestion, but it has happened to myself and a couple of other people, make sure your AUX is set high if your using the AUX DHC's lol

I run my Vesta on my tac character, 3 Aux DHC's Fore, 3 Phaser turrets aft, power setting on Aux is 125

Tactical Consoles:
Tactical - Phaser Relay x4

Engineering Consoles:
RCS XII Blue x2

Science:
I have this filled with the consoles that each Vesta comes with. I find them to be very very useful, especially when I'm in CSE and someone doesn't follow the 10% rule :p

zahinder 01-07-2013 03:13 PM

Ok, subsystem targetting, have one beam array in back. But there's not much advantage to having two of them.

What I would do is 3 Aux cannons forward, turret/beam array/cutting beam (or another turret, if you don't have it unlocked yet) aft. When you want to use subsystem targetting, just overfly your target.


I'm a big fan of torp sci boats, but given the special Vesta aux cannon thing, I'd make the most use out of it.


Oh, also, not entirely on topic, but -- photonic shockwave is AWESOME.

andoriansrus 01-07-2013 03:57 PM

ok here is my most current Vesta built I call it the Proc and Burn build but that's just me being silly

USS Wasp V1.4

Forward weapons:
2x Romulan Plasma Dual Heavy Cannons Mk XII [Acc] [Dmg]
Romulan Hyper-Plasma Torpedo
Aft Weapons:
2x Romulan Plasma Beam Array Mk XII [Acc] [Dmg]
Prototype Romulan Plasma Beam Array

Deflector, Engine, and Shields:
Omega Force Tachyon Deflector Mk XII
Omega Force Hyper-Impulse Engine Mk XII
Omega Force Shield Array Mk XII

Consoles:
Engineering Consoles: Multidimensional Wave-Function Analysis Module, Neutronium Alloy Mk XII, Zero Point Energy Console
Science Consoles: Synpathetic Fermion Transceiver, Shield Emitter Amplifier Mk XII,
Particle Generator Mk X [-Th] [Pla], Emitter Array Mk X [-Th] [Pla]
Tactical Consoles: Quantum Field Focus Controller, Plasma Infuser Mk XI,
Ambiplasma Envelope Mk XII

Hangar:
Elite Scorpion Fighters

Power Settings:

Weapons 81/75, Shields 76/50, Engines 50/25, Auxiliary 81/50

Bridge Officers:
CMDR. Science: Tractor Beam I, Science Team II, Hazard Emitters III, Viral Matrix III
LCMDR. Tactical: Tactical Team I, Attack Pattern Delta I, Cannon Rapid Fire II
LT. Tactical: Beam Fire At Will I, Torpedo High Yield II
LT. Engineer: Emergency Power to Shields I, Reverse Shield Polarity I
ENS. Engineer: Emergency power to Shields I

Duty Officers: Energy Weapoms Officer(sub-nucleonic), Projectile Weapons Officer, Sensors officer,
Systems Engineer, Development Lab Scientist

Captain Skills:
Tactical Systems: Attack Patterns 6, Starship Weapons Training 6, Starship Energy Weapons 6, Starship

Projectile Weapons 6, Starship Maneuvers 6, Starship Targeting Systems 6,
Starship Threat Control 6

Engineering Systems: Starship Hull Repair 9, Structural Integrity 6, Starship Warp Core Efficiency 9,
Starship Impulse Thrusters 6, Starship Warp Core Potential 9, Starship Engine Performance 6,
Starship Hull Plating 6, Starship Shield Performance 9, Starship Auxiliary Performance 9

Science and Operations Systems: Starship Flow Capacitors 6, Starship Shield Emitters 9,
Starship Power Insulators 6, Starship Shield Systems 9, Starship Graviton Generators 6,
Starship Particle Generators 6, Starship Sensors 6, Starship Subspace Decompiler 6

Ground Skills Science Officer: Medic 6, Weapons Proficiency 6, PS Generator 6, Scientist 6, Probability Logistics 6, Particle Physics 6

Romulan/Omega Reputation:
Romulan: Enhanced Personal Shields, Enhanced Shield Systems, Reactive Shielding,
Sensor Targeting Assault, Quantum Singularity Manipulation
Omega: Medical Nanites, Hull Repairing Nanites, Regenerative Shield Augmentation,
Omega Graviton Amplifier, Medical Nanite Cloud

Resists
Kinetic 23.1%
all other resists 29.7%
Bonus Defense 41.6%

Hull: 30,002 Hull Repair Rate: 129.4%/minute
Shieds: 12028 per facing 790.6 shield Regen every 6 seconds


and this build WORKS in PVP in a team setting... to make it work for STF's a couple changes need to be made... like using Grav Well III instead of Viral Matrix, and swapping out my Energy Weapons, and Systems Engineer DOFFS for a Flight Deck, and Gravimetric Scientist DOFF...

nothing else changes and I can walk through an STF... and its a quick reconfig to go back to PVP after.... so in reality most any build is viable it just depends on what YOU the player are trying to accomplish and going from there.... don't take my word for it I may know science ships and science as a profession but I am not the only source out there and there are many more that are more knowledgeable than I am on the subject.... but this build has in the last few days proven that it is viable in PVP AND for PVE.... try it out mess with it until you find something that works for YOU as the individual Player

lasonio 01-07-2013 05:26 PM

(Get's popcorn)

With all this aggression in here eventually someone is going to throw a chair!

I'm not getting into this discussion of the vesta, just going to watch the carnage and mayhem.

kimmym 01-10-2013 06:37 AM

First off, DHCs and turrets are a great mix for a Vesta, and its one of the perks of the ship... so don't listen to that tripe...

That said, I have not found an Aux cannon build worth using. No amount of torp/mine/whathaveyou or non-powered wep power weapons in the back there make up for the loss of your turrets. If you are going to balance wep and aux power to run both then you are losing the point of the aux cannons in the first place*. Give me some aux turrets and a beam of some sort and you will make a convert out of me, but until then my aux cannons just take up inventory space.

My build ended up not looking anything like I originally intended (as a Sci-scort pilot I was expecting to load her up with tac abilities and DPS like mad. Instead she became my CC superstar.)

front: quad cannons, Dual heavy cannon, DBB
rear: 2x turrets, KCB

Omega set

Aux bat, red matter cap, subspace field

eng: quantum phaser, assimilated module
sci: remaining vesta consoles, field generator, and either a hull-heal or plasma proc particle generator threat reducing console (I want the plasma proc but the vesta is so hull-light I keep the heal around instead)
tac: 4x phaser console

Pet as situation dictates, I'm still loving my perigrines, but am working to unlock my elite scorpions...

LT tac: Tac Team 1, Canon Rapid Fire 1
LT eng: EP2S1, Aux2Bat1
LtCom uni: EP2W1, Directed Energy Modulation 1, Eject Warp Plasma 1
Com Sci: Tractor beam1, Hazard Emitters 2, Transfer shield strength 3, Grav well 3
Ens uni: A nice little swap slot for whatver floats your boat... I tend to slot Polarize Hull 1... always nice to have.

3xTechnician Doffs (Lowers all boff cooldowns with use of Aux2Bat)
Gravemetric Scientist (chance to spawn aftershock gravity wells)
Tractor Beam officer (adds a shield drain to Tractor Beam)

Damage is really nice for a sci ship, its no sci-scort but its not meant to be. What I get is the ability to CC like no other.

*In theory a Energy Siphon build could make aux cannons/wep turrets work (Aux powered all the time, rears getting boosts from ES periodically, or if you were an ENG maybe using the same trick with EPS transfer? IDK I'm not an ENG)... but then you would be running an energy siphon build... yeah... I loved mine until it was ninja nerfed... I just doesn't knock shields out like it used to.

I also tried a system where I would aux power up front, and aux2bat on the rear attack pass, but it was cumbersome at best... and you still lose the combined power of a full on front face... meh... I keep toying but I'm still not a fan.

Edit: Hazard Emitters != polarize hull... sorry


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