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-   -   CSV3 and TS3, why bother? (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=510391)

malnificent 01-10-2013 09:24 AM

CSV3 and TS3, why bother?
 
I've got a simple question ...

Why bother with powers like CSV3 and TS3 when i see so much advise saying the benefits of CSV3 or TS3 arent worth it over the level 1 or 2 powers?

My Tac Commander BOFF presently has TS3 and CSV3, but it seems the prevailing advise is to drop both for things like APB2 & APB3 or APO1 and APB3.

Before you say it, I will already agree it's a simply matter for me to work up another Tac Boff with the APBs and APOs and give it a try ... and I will ... but i'm just curious why these skills that are directly related to damage bonus get so little encouragement? I've assumed all along the more skills i have at level 3 the better, especially those that affect my DPS.

Clearly I dont know of all the benefits of APB. Thanks for your replies while I start getting smarted on Atk Pattern Bravo.

bitterscot 01-10-2013 10:00 AM

From what I can remember, scatter volley drains significantly more weapon power compared to using rapid fire. Fine on, say, an engineer using nadion inversion or popping EPtW / EPS transfer during the firing cycle, but even so you're mostly better off with massive single target damage that comes with rapid fire and a high yield / beam overload combo.

As torp spread increases in rank, you just hit more targets as opposed to doing more damage afaik. Sounds ideal for use with scatter volley, yes, but the lower damage means you may not kill the entire group in one volley (such as ISE nanite sphere group) unless there's 2 or 3 of you in the group all using the same tactics. That leads you to getting aggro from everything that nobody else is shooting at.

At the end of the day, the skills do have their merits, but most people prefer to quickly destroy single targets one after the other, quickly reducing overall incoming fire rather than whittling down every enemy in the group bit by bit.

Beta reduces target damage resistance so enemies take more damage from you and your team and is therefore a great team skill in PvE.

PvP however, the abundance of tac team in builds makes beta less useful, delta is arguably better there, and single target damage skills with team focus fire is king to break strong healing (sub nukes, stuns and disables where appropriate etc etc...).

I'd say try out omega 3 with HY3 and a rapid 2, keep a spread 1 (or 2) with a scatter 1 for small groups of weak enemies. Should still be able to fit a beta 1 in there and tac teams for shield distro. Try it out and see how you like it.

Sorry for long post, hope I've been of some help in all that mess. :D

ussultimatum 01-10-2013 10:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malnificent (Post 7422881)
I've got a simple question ...

Why bother with powers like CSV3 and TS3 when i see so much advise saying the benefits of CSV3 or TS3 arent worth it over the level 1 or 2 powers?

I think there are more cases where you might want TS3 over CSV3 due to the competition CSV3 has for the CMD slot.

Basically:

CSV I think should also hit more targets the higher the tier, rather than simply copying rapid fire's progression (I'd like for it to follow TS progression going from 3 > 4 > 5 Targets).

Most of the time when you're using CSV, you're using it vs. weak/soft targets (BoPs in CSE, Probes in KASE, Player Pets in PvP, etc.) - you don't actually need CSV for any of that.


The issue with TS3 is that TS3 hits up to 5 targets, CSV only hits u to 3 targets - so the two lack synergy as using both together means 2/5 targets will still have shields up. TS2 is enough at that point.

It's a pretty rare case to see 5 unshielded targets all with their downed shield facings, facing you.


There might be some more uses for TS3 with Transphasics, or maybe the new Rep system Torpedoes as these all have some kind of shield bypassing damage attached to them - I haven't used these much so I can't really comment.

lordmalak1 01-10-2013 10:46 AM

I don't think CSV is all that useful against anything other than groups of mines, fighters/shuttles and groups of targetable torpedos. Against multiple cap ships all it does is spread your firepower over multiple targets that will undoubtedly survive. I'd much rather have higher ranking CRF for concentrating fire on single larger targets. Ts3 is almost as useless but it will take out smaller ships in single salvo's or at least open up shields on larger ones so that unbuffed energy weapons can finish them off in short times.

Many will disagree but when I fly cannon equipped ships I don't prioritize these powers above anything else.

thissler 01-10-2013 11:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by malnificent (Post 7422881)
I've got a simple question ...

Why bother with powers like CSV3 and TS3 when i see so much advise saying the benefits of CSV3 or TS3 arent worth it over the level 1 or 2 powers?

My Tac Commander BOFF presently has TS3 and CSV3, but it seems the prevailing advise is to drop both for things like APB2 & APB3 or APO1 and APB3.

Before you say it, I will already agree it's a simply matter for me to work up another Tac Boff with the APBs and APOs and give it a try ... and I will ... but i'm just curious why these skills that are directly related to damage bonus get so little encouragement? I've assumed all along the more skills i have at level 3 the better, especially those that affect my DPS.

Clearly I dont know of all the benefits of APB. Thanks for your replies while I start getting smarted on Atk Pattern Bravo.

It's wierd. I like to prioritize my ships to the missions. So I have MANY boff sets. I have one that is just scads of multitarget for Vault missions. And I put that in a Raptor equipped with the fastes of fleet engines. But by the end I sometimes switch out for single target because.....well sometimes I'm wondering if the group has the oomph to put down the named ship and single target is CLEARLY better for single target...so.....

But yes. I also have sets where I simply match up spread one and two with scatter one and two, and use Omega or maybe a top level mine ability for smashing borg hulls.

There are 7 or 8 boff slots on a top level tac ship. There's room for beta or delta and cannon abilities. Will you get a lot more mileage out of using beta on an unshielded borg hulk or on a player? Imma guess on the borg. Borg hulks don't often use TT.

So you can see how what you are planning on doing will shape your chocies in loadout.

edalgo 01-10-2013 11:38 AM

I popped 2 cruisers at once in a Cap n Hold using SV3 and a well timed TS3. Was in my defiant retrofit at the time coming out of cloak. The quantums crit... BOOM!

p2wsucks 01-10-2013 12:21 PM

In PVE, CVS3/TS3 can work w/a CC build where your goal is to weaken the group so the warpcore explosions kill the others.

For example, a GW and EWP/Theta can cluster/reduce movement/debuff a group of NPCs. CVS3/TS3 weakens sturdier NPCs and kills weaker 1s. The explosions of the weaker 1s chain and kill the larger 1s. This can be done solo and is fills a decent "goaly" role for non-Tac captains in some PVE maps.

Think of APB as a team debuff. If you're flying w/others this will help their DPS and yours. This goes well w/transphasics and TS3 since you're hitting multiple targets and dealing decent hull damage, which greatly weakens the targets for allies to mop up.

APD is a defensive/offensive buff/debuff and is usefull when you have an NPC capable of high damage when you toss it on whoever it's primary target is.

PvP is more selective based on your doffs/boff options and what the otherside has brought, but generally CVS3/TS3 are for anti-spam/light pressure damage.

paneth48 01-10-2013 01:10 PM

I guess it really depends on build. For stfs I tend to use CSV1 and 2 to spread debuffs to all targets and take out alot of 'chaff' (mines, fighters, small animals) and I use Torp spread 1 and 2 with plasma torps to spread burn (in pvp is ill advised as its easily countered).

I can get quite a few burn effects on npcs and -resists, this helps out the team as a whole as far as I'm concerned.

In normal pve I just plow through most things, but thats normal, anyone can do that.

As for the merits of the higher level ones, well that depends on if you want something eles in that slot. As I said, i tend to run 1-2, mostly because of room, but also because there are better skills overall to put there.

malnificent 01-10-2013 01:15 PM

much appreciated all ... wow, i never gave much time to understanding the difference of the Attack Patterns. I'll definately want to add more than just the Omega i have for breaking holds.

As for CSV3 and TS3, all good points. I'll be spending some test time in Tribble working this out. Thanks again!!!

illcadia 01-10-2013 01:25 PM

I use CSV3 and CSV2- and 2 copies of APB1 on my Blockade Retrofit. It works out fairly well, actually, as I can debuff multiple targets while still maintaining a high damage output. And it lets me deal with spam very effectively, which- especially versus KDF, is a big issue.

Now, if i wasn't running APB, then I'd probably switch over to CRF3 or something similar, or even just 2 copies of CRF1 and a copy of APO3.

I do think that CSV is underrated- the damage output is solid across the board, so you're still benefiting from it, even if you hare hitting a single target.


As for TS3, I should note that TS does approximately 80-85% of the damage of an equivalent HYT.


Thus TS1 does 80% of HYT1, but does it to 3 targets. TS2 does 80% of HYT2, but does it to 5 targets. TS3 does 80% of HYT3, but does it to 8 targets, IIRC. Now, sure, where are you going to get that many targets grouped together? You may just be interested in that exta 20% damage against a single target as the case may be,


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