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ajstoner 01-21-2013 03:12 PM

MOBS?Just get rid of them
I have come to the opinion that the entire ?enemy/friendly mob? concept is a bad one. It would be far better if we could just place individual characters and ships on the map with an advanced option to programs some of their data like shield strength, hit points, etc.

Also, combine mobs and contacts into a single item with what they do based upon selected (and changeable) behaviors.

This would alleviate a huge number of problems and be far easier for us to get what we want on screen without having to resort to ham-handed work-arounds that invariably fall short of the mark. I can think of no real advantage to the current way of doing things.

Old missions can be either converted by set criteria or allowed to stay as vestigial mobs that follow the old rules. Why continue down a wretched, pothole filled road when there is a nice paved one not far away?

pendra3780 01-21-2013 03:32 PM

Think about it this way:
You are talking to the devs who honestly believe that 5 mobs + 3 Kill objectives = Epic mission. They have been building games based on this principle for more than a decade.

Asking them to put mobs away is like trying to convince a Hindu to eat beef. Not gonna happen.
Anyway this has been proposed more than a year ago.

psycoticvulcan 01-21-2013 03:43 PM

The only problem with the OP's suggestion is that it doesn't take teams and scaling enemies into account. Aside from that I like it a lot.

stardestroyer001 01-21-2013 04:13 PM


Originally Posted by pendra3780 (Post 7578491)
Think about it this way:
Asking them to put mobs away is like trying to convince a Hindu to eat beef. Not gonna happen.

No offense intended to the Hindus, but I found that funny.

Anyways, I'd prefer if there was an option between traditional mobs and the suggestion the original person said. Having a choice is better than being locked into an option.

chicochavez 01-21-2013 04:19 PM

You also have to consider how the base AI, enemy spawning (what class and what they come with) and scaling is done in game. The "normal" missions use mobs as well so going from it to singular enemies might require re-writing a lot of code.

designationxr377 01-21-2013 07:42 PM

I rather like the system because these are the combat groups that have been tested and tried over the whole period of STO's existence. I got a feeling breaking them down is a bad idea and will lead to us dealing with problems the devs themselves dealt with at game creation. We'd basically be ripping up the road to repave it again the same way.

Although, I would like to see some way to include more single captain balanced mobs eventually, for if/when the day comes where we get single Captain maps or Shuttle/Fighter only maps. The standard groups, outside of weak, will not cut it.

nagorak 01-22-2013 03:35 AM

I think the current mechanic is fine, we just need to have a few more options. If we could set the allegiance of any group, that would be great. Also, if we could have separate Cardassian and Jem'Hadar ship groups. And if we had "boss" groups, which were just a single ship (Frigate/Cruiser/Battleship/Dreadnought) that was scaled up to be difficult, then I think we'd be good.

I think the only issue with the contacts is the contact limit needs to be doubled.

skydawnknight 01-22-2013 04:56 AM


Originally Posted by nagorak (Post 7584201)
I think the only issue with the contacts is the contact limit needs to be doubled.

I would be so up for this if I didn't have the feeling that raising the contact limit would also cause issues with load times, etc. You also can't eliminate mobs altogether, as they are specifically designed to balance out an encounter, and are auto-scaled depending on number of players and level.

I would much rather have more options for mob customization. There are SO many things missing that I'm wondering if it's just a matter of no one taking the time to put them in. For example:

1) The ability to set the faction of any mob group. Having to pick specific mobs for friendlies and enemies just seems silly to me when you can change their all around appearances anyway. A Klingon with a Fed phaser rifle is honestly just annoying to look at.

2) Give us ALL of the mobs. This goes for ground and space. Why such a limited list of choices? Is it a problem with how they interact on different maps? If that's the case, that's one of the first things that should have been addressed from the very beginning.

3) Allow us to set the number. Why do I have to figure out where I'm putting 5 or 6 mobs, when I only want 2? And if we are limited to choosing more powerful mobs for balance, please see suggestion #2....

4) Let our contacts and mobs do things that we already see in-game. Why can't contacts have a Legacy Combat option like mobs do? Or the ability to follow my away team? Why do all 6 mobs have to say and do the same exact thing when entering combat?

5) Streamline the map/storyline tool. We need to have mob/contact/object triggers on the map that can access the storyline dialogues without having to tailor separate popups that basically do the same thing. Aren't they all on the same list anyway? Plus it would take away a HUGE amount of frustration if we were allowed to copy a dialogue or assign it to a different object.

Those are just some ideas that I figure would alleviate a lot of the stress in the creative process.

zahinder 01-22-2013 09:15 AM

Setting allegiance would be great, but one advantage to the way the rest of it works is that the devs don't have to worry quite as much about exploits or abuse. I mean, City of Heroes' Mission Architect had massive problems because people could make specially set-up mobs that were ineffective but rewarding.

Mind you, Foundry has so many other ways to reduce threat I'm not sure the devs win anything with that sort of balance, and the current qualification system seems to ignore microbalance and just do an eyeball 'yeah, that's about right.'

Of course, the bigger answer is 'that would require devs to put in a lot of resources to develop.' And, well.

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