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-   -   Bug: Multi-Select, Interiors, and Y Values (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=532721)

kirksplat 01-30-2013 03:46 PM

Bug: Multi-Select, Interiors, and Y Values
 
I've just spent about 2 hours battling the mult-select tool. I'll try to describe in detail everything that frustrated me in the hope that much it is due to bugs that can be fixed.

OK, so I need the set of the "Federation Council." I'm using a generic interior, with custom walls to hide the existing walls. Since the Council in Trek consists of two sets of "bleachers" (for lack of a better word) on two opposite sides of a hall, I thought that this would be a handy way to use multi-select. The plan was to build one side of the council and then copy everything to put a duplicate version on the other side of the room. Here is what I tried to copy:

http://starbaseugc.com/wp-content/up...1/council1.jpg

After selecting each item into a multi-select grouping, and pressing cntl + v, the new version of the set dropped onto the map at a negative Y value. Because interiors have a limit of like -1.2 Y, then everything in the group got smashed together.

I thought that maybe I could salvage it by selecting each item and readjusting the Y values, but the copied version had different Y values that are associated with an edit of the multi-selected group, when I tried to raise all of it above the place that it dropped.

So, a chair that is 1.9 Y on the original side of the room is now 2.14 on the other side of the room (I had to go in and out of preview many times just to figure out the new value). Copying them messed up the Y relative to interiors.

Most frustrating, however, is the fact all of the chairs and consoles are hidden by the platforms, when they are not hidden by the platforms in the first version.

Combine all of this with the fact that, as a foundry veteran, I can't figure out how or why the foundry is organizing my props on the left side of the screen. I have to look at the coordinates of every one them hidden by the platform simply to find the one I need to move, etc.

Ok, so what started as a simple task that seemed meant for the multi-select tool turned into a crazy nightmare. I'm glad that I didn't save anything, so that I could start fresh.

It's easier now to just build a second version from scratch.

Thanks!

nagorak 01-31-2013 12:50 AM

What I've discovered with multi-select is the following:

1) The last thing you select on the map is what is used as your pivot point.

1a - Bug) Selecting something from the list on the side, results in a random object being used as the pivot point, so it is worthless to control where things are placed, since you don't know what object is being used for the initial coordinates.

2) When you copy a set of objects, the pivot changes randomly to one of the copied objects, resulting in you needing to reselect all of them in order to reset the pivot point. This is very obnoxious and time consuming. Alternatively you can deselect a single object and then reselect it on the map, but this isn't always easy to pull off, depending on how many objects there are and how much they overlap.

3) If you copy and paste, the Y value is reset to 0. If you duplicate it is not.

This isn't related to multi-select, but the object sorting doesn't sort "default named" objects alphabetically. This makes a mess of the list, because part of it is alphabetical and part is not. All of the objects should be sorted alphabetically, including those with a default name (that default name should be used for sorting purposes).

markhawkman 01-31-2013 05:51 AM

I've discovered that you CAN force the list to be better alphabetized, if only temporarily. Just change the sort criteria.... sa few times.

kirksplat 01-31-2013 09:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nagorak (Post 7762481)
your pivot point.

Nag, could you please explain what you mean here?

drogyn1701 01-31-2013 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirksplat (Post 7772551)
Nag, could you please explain what you mean here?

If you've got multiple things selected, you can rotate them all at once, but it will use only one of the selected objects as the point all the objects will pivot around.

everton2003 01-31-2013 10:10 AM

BOFFS in floor
 
well i would like to add there is a issue with my bridge officers not sitting in the seats of their stations in stead they are sitting halfway thru the floor. wonder if any of you guys had come across that as well?

crypticfrost 01-31-2013 10:12 AM

Thanks for pointing out these issues. I'll get them passed on to the powers that be.

nagorak 01-31-2013 04:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by drogyn1701 (Post 7774331)
If you've got multiple things selected, you can rotate them all at once, but it will use only one of the selected objects as the point all the objects will pivot around.

Also it is used for adjusting the coordinates of everything.

Example:

Object A is at coordinates 1,1,1
Object B is at coordinates 2,2,2
Object C is at coordinates 3,3,3

Selecting Objects On The Map: If I select the objects in this order on the map, A, B, C, Object C's coordinates will be the one that is displayed in the selection window. That's important because if I want to move everything up, I'd want to increase the Y value to 4, rather than decreasing it to 2. It's pretty obvious in this situation, but it matters a lot more when you're trying to move something to a certain point. Say, I wanted to have Object B centered on a certain point, with A and C around it, I'd need to select Object B last and use it to adjust the coordinates.

Likewise, when rotating the group of objects, the last object selected is used for the central pushpin location, with everything else rotating around it.

Selecting Objects On The Objective List: If I select the objects from the objects list in the same order, A, B, C, the one that is selected at the end will be largely random. It won't be the last one selected. In this simple case you could probably tell which is which, but in actual use it is often close to impossible.

Copying Objects: Let's say I have A, B, C selected. When I copy them, it would be ideal to have the copied version of C selected in the new group. Unfortunately, that's not what happens. The object that is selected is largely random, depending on what order they copy in. Likewise, the Y values get reset to 0 if you use copy, which I think is a bug. Instead you should use duplicate, if at all possible, since the Y value is preserved. However, if you duplicate the X value of all objects gets increased by an amount that varies depending on how zoomed in you are in.

Suggestion: Implement one or more of the following changes: 1) Allow us an option to disable the X value offset when duplicating objects; 2) Make it so that when you duplicate a group of objects that the X value offset is not increased; 3) Make it so that when you duplicate objects the X value offset is a set value, such as 1 or 5, rather than varying depending on how far zoomed in you are.

kirksplat 01-31-2013 05:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by nagorak (Post 7803401)
Also it is used for adjusting the coordinates of everything.

Example:

Object A is at coordinates 1,1,1
Object B is at coordinates 2,2,2
Object C is at coordinates 3,3,3

Selecting Objects On The Map: If I select the objects in this order on the map, A, B, C, Object C's coordinates will be the one that is displayed in the selection window. That's important because if I want to move everything up, I'd want to increase the Y value to 4, rather than decreasing it to 2. It's pretty obvious in this situation, but it matters a lot more when you're trying to move something to a certain point. Say, I wanted to have Object B centered on a certain point, with A and C around it, I'd need to select Object B last and use it to adjust the coordinates.

Likewise, when rotating the group of objects, the last object selected is used for the central pushpin location, with everything else rotating around it.

Selecting Objects On The Objective List: If I select the objects from the objectives list in the same order, A, B, C, the one that is selected at the end will be largely random. It won't be the last one selected. In this simple case you could probably tell which is which, but in actual use it is often close to impossible.

Copying Objects: Let's say I have A, B, C selected. When I copy them, it would be ideal to have the copied version of C selected in the new group. Unfortunately, that's not what happens. The object that is selected is largely random, depending on what order they copy in. Likewise, the Y values get reset to 0 if you use copy, which I think is a bug. Instead you should use duplicate, if at all possible, since the Y value is preserved. However, if you duplicate the X value of all objects gets increased by an amount that varies depending on how zoomed in you are in.

Suggestion: Implement one or more of the following changes: 1) Allow us an option to disable the X value offset when duplicating objects; 2) Make it so that when you duplicate a group of objects that the X value offset is not increased; 3) Make it so that when you duplicate objects the X value offset is a set value, such as 1 or 5, rather than varying depending on how far zoomed in you are.

Nagorak, can you make a tutorial on this? I find it very confusing. I didn't know this about duplicate. I've always used cntl c, cntl v, followed by an instant need to fix the Y value.

Is there a shortcut for duplicate, or is it in the drop down edit options?

nagorak 01-31-2013 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kirksplat (Post 7803521)
Nagorak, can you make a tutorial on this? I find it very confusing. I didn't know this about duplicate. I've always used cntl c, cntl v, followed by an instant need to fix the Y value.

Is there a shortcut for duplicate, or is it in the drop down edit options?

There's a little icon on the right side of the coordinates entry box. That's the only place it exists, I think.

Just be aware if you use it to duplicate Enemy groups that the actors list get scrambled, so you need to reskin them again afterwards. Maybe that should count as another bug.


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