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-   -   Javelin Vs. Lance -- Devs Please Comment (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=539271)

themarie 02-03-2013 10:52 PM

Javelin Vs. Lance -- Devs Please Comment
 
When I fly my Siege Destroyer on the KDF side, I can get some amazing shots in with this ship. Today I scored a 50K+ Crit on a Borg target, and I hit some generators for 30K + each. The amazing part is my KDF is a science toon. :eek:

Now Fed side, all three toons have a Galaxy X. Even on my Tac with a phaser-only build I'm lucky if I get 2-5K and it rarely crits. :rolleyes:


As seen in All Good Things, the Galaxy X managed to take out an opposing vessel in one volley. As it stands in game it's less powerful than a single torpedo strike.

From what I remember this was nerfed quite awhile ago because of balance issues -- certain folks were concerned that the Feds had an I-Win button that could cloak.

Here we are today, both sides have more toys to play with and folks have a better understand of PVP builds. Can we turn the damage back up on the Lance so it is on par with the Javelin? :)


Or failing that can we tweak the Javelin so it is as weak and useless as the Lance is? :D

dracondarknight 02-04-2013 01:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themarie (Post 7874091)

Now Fed side, all three toons have a Galaxy X. Even on my Tac with a phaser-only build I'm lucky if I get 2-5K and it rarely crits. :rolleyes:

You do something wrong then, and by wrong I mean terribly wrong.

Quote:

Originally Posted by themarie (Post 7874091)
As seen in All Good Things, the Galaxy X managed to take out an opposing vessel in one volley. As it stands in game it's less powerful than a single torpedo strike.

See above
Quote:

Originally Posted by themarie (Post 7874091)
From what I remember this was nerfed quite awhile ago because of balance issues -- certain folks were concerned that the Feds had an I-Win button that could cloak.

*sigh* Ok I said this about 200 times on the forums now but it was not nerfed... People just can't get it into their heads that 20'000 Base damage divided by two shots is the same as 10'000 x 2, just displayed differently. And that is how the rumor of the lance being nerfed is spreading until today :rolleyes:

Quote:

Originally Posted by themarie (Post 7874091)
Here we are today, both sides have more toys to play with and folks have a better understand of PVP builds. Can we turn the damage back up on the Lance so it is on par with the Javelin?

The only thing that is not on par with it is the cooldown, other than that I have already one shot moving escorts with it . (Also 20 - 40% shot a bug that single handly managed to turn a match around after he joined)

Quote:

Originally Posted by themarie (Post 7874091)
Or failing that can we tweak the Javelin so it is as weak and useless as the Lance is?

Again, you do something wrong with the lance there, whatever it is.
Your numbers are what I usually get when I hit a gate from 9.99km distance and have a bad shot at it. And even then its still more like 7K per shot (therefore 14k)

The last time I my lance hit its target bad it still did 133k during the entire game, and I only used it twice. And that number does not include the damage the Borg's shield's absorbed.
The Gal X certainly needs some changes, but the Lance damage is not one of them.

dalnar83 02-04-2013 03:13 AM

Main problem with Phaser lance is...that it does MISS most of the time.

reynoldsxd 02-04-2013 05:50 AM

Dudem, lance weapons and the GX sure need buffs, but 2-5 k?

Did you empty your weapons power before trying that?


The Fed lance is just as powerful as the javelin, despite the stealth nerf to accuracy it has since EVER (so... missing that tractored carrier at 2km.... k.....), but it simply is installed on a ****ty ship-setup.


THe G-X (and the Galaxy in general) is horribly done by cryptic and i resent them for it, for ever.... ever since that moment in open beta when we had to see the ****ty textures, effed up model and the general lack of care given to the ship class.

themarie 02-04-2013 08:44 AM

Ok so what am I doing wrong then? Mind you I've been building this ship with the advice of other folks, who also report similar "lame" hits.

How do I go about getting some "oompf" from the Lance?

mandoknight89 02-04-2013 09:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themarie (Post 7879551)
Ok so what am I doing wrong then? Mind you I've been building this ship with the advice of other folks, who also report similar "lame" hits.

How do I go about getting some "oompf" from the Lance?

We'd have to see your setup as-is...

In general, you should be running Phaser Relays on the Χ, since that will boost the damage of the Lance. Running high weapon power also helps, though you may need to shut off your main phasers or time your Lance better since Beams hold their power drain much longer than Dual Heavy Cannons. There's also the usual general damage boosts from Attack Pattern Beta and Omega that you may have been using on your Guramba that you weren't on your X because of the relative lack of Tactical officer powers.

themarie 02-04-2013 09:33 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mandoknight89 (Post 7880251)
We'd have to see your setup as-is...

In general, you should be running Phaser Relays on the Χ, since that will boost the damage of the Lance.

I have multiple high-end Phaser Relays.


Quote:

Running high weapon power also helps, though you may need to shut off your main phasers or time your Lance better since Beams hold their power drain much longer than Dual Heavy Cannons.
Depending on which toon I run I pop something that boosts my power-levels prior to firing. Either a battery or one of the power-level enhancing powers.

I also wait until the target's shields are down before I fire the lance.


Quote:

There's also the usual general damage boosts from Attack Pattern Beta and Omega that you may have been using on your Guramba that you weren't on your X because of the relative lack of Tactical officer powers.
My Guramba is flown by a science officer, the only power I use is Sensor Scan.

mandoknight89 02-04-2013 10:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by themarie (Post 7880601)
My Guramba is flown by a science officer, the only power I use is Sensor Scan.

No, I mean your Tactical Bridge officers. A Galaxy-X can't use Attack Pattern Omega and can use Attack Pattern Delta or Beta if you feel like giving up Fire-At-Will 2 or something else at the Lt level. A Guramba can fit in whatever attack patterns you feel like and still have enough slots left for Cannon Rapid Fire and the like.

dracondarknight 02-04-2013 11:49 AM

The Key is to buff your Energy weapons as good as possible and run at high Energy levels when you shoot it. Attack patterns other than Alpha are imho not necessary, but help.
You should also run a Phaser and Torp build only.

Then you simply need to hit all your buffs, tractor the Target and shoot. I recommand getting damaged a bit before you hit Going down fighting btw - adds some spiceing to the shot.
Some people also report that it has a higher hit chance when you don't move the moment you press the button.
Whether this is intended or not (This would btw even be logical), you should try it.

As for your build, sorry I keep mine classified; First i don't like it when too many people run around with my build and second is that Cryptic tends to change things too many people use.

themarie 02-04-2013 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dracondarknight (Post 7883391)

As for your build, sorry I keep mine classified; First i don't like it when too many people run around with my build and second is that Cryptic tends to change things too many people use.

I hear that! I am still quite sore that we were discussing trico-bombing tactics in TTS and not even two weeks later they started "adjusting" things. :rolleyes:


Going forward from here, if I had "One Wish" to spend on a ship-tweak, I would buff the lance so it does trico-level shield-penetrating damage. The Galaxy X's turn-rate and the long cooldown would prevent this from being an effective "escort killer" but turn it into a good stationary-target killer or slow-moving-target killer.

I shouldn't have to do more than what I have done with my builds to get any sort of kick from this weapon.


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