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-   -   Of Ranks and Levels... (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=541391)

captainhunter1 02-05-2013 03:23 PM

Of Ranks and Levels...
 
With the possibility of a level cap increase at or after Season 8 ("The patch too big to be a Season"), I think it's time to visit the subject of disconnecting Rank and Level again - before it is locked in stone.

Frankly, the highest Rank any player should be able to earn in the game is Captain. This is Star Trek lore talking. Admiral rank would still be available in game - but only to those individuals who actually are in charge of a Fleet (guild).

I mean seriously, how many Fleet Admirals (5 pips) are we going to see running around fighting hand to hand with the Borg, shoulder to shoulder with each other in team play (up to 20 at a time in some missions! lol), if the Rank and Level system continues at it's current pace? And what about after? What if they want to raise the level cap again? How many Presidents of the Federation/Chancellors of the Empire will be on the front lines tossing grenades and punching Undine?

Unfortunately the opportunity to rectify this with less pain was passed by at the Free to Play launch. All existing characters could have retained their Admiral rank status, while new characters would have Captain as their highest rank. THE LEVELING SYSTEM WOULD REMAIN THE SAME - everyone would still have the same skills, ships, etc. at level 50 but would have Captain as their rank. The Admiral rank would have been a thank you perk for those characters that had been paying a subscription. (or for those who wished to have it by running a fleet instead of being the level cap default it is now).

But that time is well past, and it's been said there will be a level cap increase sometime in the future. So for that future, which has also mentioned the ability of players to run multiple ships, isn't it time we divorced Rank and Level in STO? Make the highest rank Fleet Captain (for that aforementioned ability to command multiple ships), except for those that are true Fleet (guild) leaders (again, gaining "Admiral" rank regardless of their characters actual level).

However, don't strip ranks from current characters (it's way too late for that) - those that wish to stay Vice Admiral/Lt. General can do so, but again, new characters would have Captain as their highest rank. The best way I can see this happening is to have titles unlocked as a character progresses (parallel to current progression but WITHOUT the forced promotions while leveling), with NPCs addressng the character by their chosen title. Do you have a Level 50 character that has unlocked all Rank titles up to Fleet Captain, but wishes to be a Commander? No problem - chose that title and all NPCs address you as "Commander".

Let's get back to something a bit more realistic, and a bit more on par with what heroes we've seen in all Star Trek franchises - Captain rank (not just ship commander position).

Otherwise, I'll be seeing all you other "Presidents of the Federation" in an STF soon...:P

newplayerguy7 02-06-2013 10:29 AM

Well that was a lot of text to say Captain rank (not level) should be the top and to use titles for NPCs.

But, yeah, I agree. It's kinda dumb we're all Admirals.

(Oh, and good idea making guild leaders the only real admirals)

smokeybacon90 02-06-2013 10:34 AM

Quinn gives us command of a ship at the very start of the game. I don't think it would be very hard to modify the dialogue allowing the player to simply become a Captain there and then. We can abolish the rank system altogether other than Captain, and Vice/Rear/Full Admiral for leaders of fleets with a certain lifetime fleet credit score. Any references to level on item cards would simply be changed to a number, e.g. instead of "Rear Admiral Lower Half", just "level 40".

sasheria 02-06-2013 11:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by smokeybacon90 (Post 7919131)
Quinn gives us command of a ship at the very start of the game. I don't think it would be very hard to modify the dialogue allowing the player to simply become a Captain there and then. We can abolish the rank system altogether other than Captain, and Vice/Rear/Full Admiral for leaders of fleets with a certain lifetime fleet credit score. Any references to level on item cards would simply be changed to a number, e.g. instead of "Rear Admiral Lower Half", just "level 40".

I always wonder about that. It is pretty odd that I'm an Admiral but I only have my "fleet of ships" which I can use one at a time ;)

I think there should just be levels and items tied to it "must be level 40 to use" "must be level 60 to use" etc etc.

Now your crew can still be Ensign to LT commander (just like the show) I'm cool with that.

resoundingenvoy 02-06-2013 11:49 AM

It does seem odd to have so many admirals so close together. A commander having nothing better to do then shoot back is either in a lot of trouble, or don't have much to command occupying his time.

I don't remember 20 even one-star generals/admirals being active in time of war, but I haven't pay that close attention to history. Much much less them being in groups of four or five in time of war.

One other issue, If I am a (vice admiral / lieutenant general) that should mean I have at least 5% of the entire branch under my command. Somehow I don't think I can visit ESD, commender a fleet of 500-1000 ships and go stomp on someone. :P

Having the rank so common is kind of absurd.

sumghai 02-06-2013 03:14 PM

This probably has been kicked around many times, but I think that levels and ranks should be decoupled - the former would be used as the cap at which players can access various content, whilst the latter would be simply "milestones" that are earned.

Most importantly, NPC dialogue should respect what rank you wish to be addressed as - currently in-game you can choose your player "title" to be Captain, but NPCs will still address you as Admiral.

starkaos 02-06-2013 03:31 PM

As far as the game is concerned, there is only one chosen one. There are not currently thousands of Vice Admirals just a few. Its not like everyone stopped the Doomsday Machine, discovered the Undine were being influenced by the Iconians, and many other instances in the game. Only one crew did it.

mondoid 02-06-2013 03:36 PM

They should kill the level system. Then use a reputation system for the ranks, have sectors and other content unlock at different ranks. This would simplify everything from loot drops on scaling missions to crafting.

sumghai 02-06-2013 04:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkaos (Post 7925011)
As far as the game is concerned, there is only one chosen one. There are not currently thousands of Vice Admirals just a few. Its not like everyone stopped the Doomsday Machine, discovered the Undine were being influenced by the Iconians, and many other instances in the game. Only one crew did it.

That would work fine in a single player game.

In an MMO, where you're expected to work with fellow player captains of equal or greater ability, it breaks immersion.

khan5000 02-06-2013 05:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by resoundingenvoy (Post 7920321)
It does seem odd to have so many admirals so close together. A commander having nothing better to do then shoot back is either in a lot of trouble, or don't have much to command occupying his time.

I don't remember 20 even one-star generals/admirals being active in time of war, but I haven't pay that close attention to history. Much much less them being in groups of four or five in time of war.

One other issue, If I am a (vice admiral / lieutenant general) that should mean I have at least 5% of the entire branch under my command. Somehow I don't think I can visit ESD, commender a fleet of 500-1000 ships and go stomp on someone. :P

Having the rank so common is kind of absurd.

actually the US Navy is allowed 215 four star Admirals at all times...thats doesn't count the 3, 2, and 1 stars nor the flag ranks of the other branches. Now if we only have 215 for a planet how many does that give us for several planets and quadrants?

also attaining Admiral's rank is lore also. Kirk did it, Bones did it (he's refered to as an Admiral in the pilot of TNG), Janeway


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