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-   -   Need for an Engineer in high level PvP? (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=545591)

arctos1717 02-09-2013 08:22 AM

Need for an Engineer in high level PvP?
 
We are all aware of a marginal position of an engineer captain in STO at the moment, but looking at PvP, especially premade, it makes me think if there is any need at all for an engineer? Even the best of the best can't heal as much as best science captains, not to talk about doing damage.

Am I missing something maybe?

webdeath 02-09-2013 08:41 AM

From my experiences it depends on the team make up.

Some times you just need to have an Engineer to be able to survive as a healer when a Sci or Tac can't do it.

Though of course it's rare to run into situations like that. :)

zarathos1978 02-09-2013 09:35 AM

sci/sci perhaps. Ever thought about putting eng in more eng-biased sci ship like Nebula, D'Kyr or one of Vestas? You trade scattering field for MW and RSF while getting all the good sci HoTs and enough place for most importand eng buff/healing abilities.

webdeath 02-09-2013 10:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by zarathos1978 (Post 7972571)
sci/sci perhaps. Ever thought about putting eng in more eng-biased sci ship like Nebula, D'Kyr or one of Vestas? You trade scattering field for MW and RSF while getting all the good sci HoTs and enough place for most importand eng buff/healing abilities.

I've done that. It can work. Though I'm afraid for me personally, I don't enjoy doing healing in STO.

virusdancer 02-09-2013 10:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arctos1717 (Post 7971771)
Even the best of the best can't heal as much as best science captains

Eng: Miracle Worker, Rotate Shield Frequency, Nadion Inversion, EPS Power, Engineering Fleet

Sci: Subnucleonic Beam, Photonic Fleet, Scattering Field, Sensor Scan, Science Fleet

Those are the five abilities that separate a Sci Captain and an Eng Captain. The Sci doesn't have any additional healing there.

There's SNB which could reduce the amount of healing needed by stripping buffs off a target. There's Scattering which can reduce the amount of healing needed by reducing energy weapon damage to the hull of those around you. There's Sci Fleet which can reduce the amount of healing needed by reducing damage to shields while also reducing potential drain to shields and power levels. It also boosts shield healing. DOFF'd Scan could also reduce the amount of healing needed by reducing the amount of damage being done. Even Photonic could technically reduce damage by acting as chaff and eating some non-targeted incoming damage.

But there's not actually any heals.
And you're going to have other Sci's for Evil Bill Nye goodies.

The Eng, well, from a team perspective - probably start off with Eng Fleet. Which can actually increase passive healing because of the boost to hull repair (as well as active healing), provides the smallish boost to all power levels which can provide that smallish increase to shield damage reduction and regen, and it also provides additional hull damage resist. Then there's using EPS Power to boost power on yourself or a single ally - which can do more of what the WCP buff from Eng Fleet did. And then... well, nope - that's it. MW, RSF, and NI are just things that may keep you alive longer so you can do your job longer.

There's more "team healing" out of an Engineer than a Sci. The Sci is just more team friendly overall. But again, you're likely to have another Sci or two - you're not likely to have the Eng there as anything other than a Healer - which gets into that overall discussion of Engineers and their five innates vs. the five for Tac or Sci.

As web said though, depending on the team setup - it may or may not be covered anyway. Lots of folks have posted about the 3 Tac/2 Sci or 2 Tac/3 Sci teams - with crosshealing, etc, etc, etc. One could say that an Eng healer is like lockbox, eh? Sometimes you may bring them, and simply not need them - wishing you had brought something else. Sometimes you may not bring them, and find you need them - wishing you had brought them instead of something else. The various discussions over the years should give an idea of what the percentage rates for either of those scenarios is...

As zara said, it's about the ship. Cmdr Eng and LCdr Sci - so that you can get the best heals from both. So you're going to hear about the Recluse and the Science Odyssey. From time to time, you'll see folks arguing those two in OPvP. Heck, there's even folks that have brought up the Ambassador and what a Fleet version might be able to do since it's got the Cmdr Eng and LCdr Sci. The Fleet Nebula...has Cmdr Sci and LCdr Eng - so you've got a non-heal Cmdr Sci ability while missing out on the Cmdr Eng abilities. Course, if the team can work around that - then it opens to the door to several more ships with that kind of layout that could work as more offensive healers - giving up that Cmdr Eng heal for some Cmdr Sci EVIL...muahahahaha.

But don't mind me in the least...I don't participate in high level PvP and neither of my Engineers are healers. :)

webdeath 02-09-2013 11:18 AM

Also virus, you left out Carriers as the Atrox and the Vor'quv has Cmd Sci and LtC Engi.. ;)

virusdancer 02-09-2013 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by webdeath (Post 7973831)
Also virus, you left out Carriers as the Atrox and the Vor'quv has Cmd Sci and LtC Engi.. ;)

Yep, left those out. The Mirror Vo'Quv is pretty interesting for that with the LCdr Tac, LCdr Eng, Lt Eng, and Cmdr Sci instead of the LCdr Tac, LCdr Eng, Cmdr Sci, Lt Sci of the regular Vo'Quv.

Shame that the Bortasqu' doesn't have the console layouts to support what you could do with the BOFF layouts.

magnumoftheblack 02-09-2013 11:47 AM

I don't know guys, I never saw Picard ask Geordi LaForge for a heal. And I could have sworn that I never saw Spock move Scotty aside and fix the warp core.
The fact that people think that Engineers are healers is a concept that should be rethought.

Engineers fabricate and fix. Sciences research and control. Depending on an Engineer to heal you is about as reliable as Dr. McCoy laying a code worthy brick path.

Just something to think about.

c1cer0 02-09-2013 11:48 AM

The Eng is nearly useless
 
Since you can not deal significant damage with Beams, the Nadion Inversion and EPS Power are not very useful.
So no damage from an Eng.
Just a bit more (self)- healing.
The Sci on the other side - all his abilities are useful for the whole Team!

Maby the Engenier needs a few... upgrades, to be in Line with all the Changes, that come up here across the years.

havam 02-09-2013 11:49 AM

There is no need for engineers in pvp.

The extra (self!) healing they bring is hardly ever worth the absence of another SNB, aka sci the former next best healer, and pretty much better healer atm.


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