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-   -   Reputation System Suggestion (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=567271)

viper40watt 02-25-2013 04:48 PM

Reputation System Suggestion
 
I know I'm late to the party in regards to commenting on the Reputation system, but since it seems like Devs actively read the forum, I though I'd add my two cents.

I think there is nothing inherently wrong with the concept of a Rep system, and the idea is a fine one, but as it stands now it feels like nothing other than mindless busy work. It's true that there can be a simple joy in filling up a progress bar and yielding slow and steady progression towards a goal, but the addition of multiple commodoties needed for each project makes the whole thing feel like an irritating and boring job rather than a game. I assume they were added to give a useful function for underused items that were accumulating in people's banks, and/or to provide a light EC sink, but the end result is just tedious.

If reputation projects could be finished with just Omega/Romulan marks I think much of the feeling of 'grind' would be removed. There's fun to be had by playing the missions (STF or Romulan), gaining marks, then filling up progress bars with those marks heading towards an unlocking goal. Things become cluttered and begin to feel like work once you add in the need to replicate endless additional items or run around to various star systems to collect them in huge quantities at the best prices.

Noone really wants to feel like they're playing a second job, and I think this is a simple change that helps to remove some of that grind feeling.

tc10b 02-25-2013 04:53 PM

Really wish people would stop saying "it's a second job" Playing Cure and Infected Ground Elite a hundred or so times, only to carry someone through who would end up getting the Very Rare drop. That was a second job. Buying some commodities is a drop in the ocean by comparison.

starkaos 02-25-2013 04:56 PM

You are gaining a reputation with a specific organization and doing unrelated content should have no effect on that organization. There is the possibility of getting Starfleet and KDF Marks that you can use with various Starfleet and KDF reputations like Section 31, Department of Temporal Investigations, and Klingon Intelligence so having multiiple Marks for those might not make sense. This is the only situation where I can see a unified Mark working on numerous reputations.

viper40watt 02-25-2013 05:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tc10b (Post 8308841)
Really wish people would stop saying "it's a second job" Playing Cure and Infected Ground Elite a hundred or so times, only to carry someone through who would end up getting the Very Rare drop. That was a second job. Buying some commodities is a drop in the ocean by comparison.

I'm saying it feels like mindless busy work, something that is often called out as 'a second job.' I've been in many a PUG group with ineffective or AFK players, which is somewhat irritating, but I still enjoy the basic aspect of playing a Star Trek game, even if it sometimes becomes unwinable. Buying commodities is easy, incredibly easy, the cost isn't even that high, just a few million to max out a character's reputation. My complaint wasn't that it was difficult, just that it was tedious and not fun and my suggestion was merely to address the feeling of 'grind' not to make it easier.

viper40watt 02-25-2013 05:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkaos (Post 8308881)
You are gaining a reputation with a specific organization and doing unrelated content should have no effect on that organization. There is the possibility of getting Starfleet and KDF Marks that you can use with various Starfleet and KDF reputations like Section 31, Department of Temporal Investigations, and Klingon Intelligence so having multiiple Marks for those might not make sense. This is the only situation where I can see a unified Mark working on numerous reputations.

I think you may have misinterpreted what I was saying. I have no desire to see a unified mark, I can see a logic in doing so, but I certainly see the reasons why they would remain seperate. My only concern was with removing the extra commodities required to fill out a reputation project, leaving the only requirement marks (omega marks for Omega rep, romulan marks for Romulan, etc.,). In doing so it would address what, to me anyway, makes the reputation feel like unfun busywork.

I went up to T3 on one of my characters before the tedium of filling in boxes became too boring. I still play STFs and romulan PVE missions on all eight of my regularly played toons because I enjoy it, I just don't bother with the reputation system any more as I gain no satisfaction or fun with it. Streamlining the reputation system by not requiring commodities would remove much of the tedium I associate with it.

fovrel 02-25-2013 05:11 PM

The thing is, you need a specific item, marks, you get those as a reward for playing certain content, then you need boff xp and a number of commodities. The boff xp you get by playing any content. The commodities can be bought by certain traders for EC. EC we can get by playing any type of content, loot, sell loot etc.

Why can't I give just marks and EC? So the Romulans can buy there own stuff and why do I have to travel to trader X for commodity A and to trader Y for commodity B, what kind of universe is that. It is like buying a shirt in London, a pair of trousers in Berlin and you get your socks in Oslo. Do they think my space ship runs on empty matter?

lukem2409 02-25-2013 07:37 PM

I think they should make all marks universal and change them to either Empire marks or Federation marks (obviously depending on which side you play) then make those marks usable for anything from Omega/Romulus to fleet projects. It'd make life a lot easier for everyone.

starkaos 02-25-2013 07:39 PM

Probably did misunderstand what you were saying. I think commodities as commodities that are given to help. A new colony would need provisions and medical supplies for the other projects, it takes resources to make them.

viper40watt 02-25-2013 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by starkaos (Post 8311681)
Probably did misunderstand what you were saying. I think commodities as commodities that are given to help. A new colony would need provisions and medical supplies for the other projects, it takes resources to make them.

I agree there is an internal logic to providing commodities to help out the new colony, more so than donating "experience" or "marks" to help them out. Be that as it may, we play this game to have fun. I can understand when fun impacts profits, there is a need to err on the side of profits, but in this case I don't see how having us run around or replicate a bunch of commodities does anything for Cryptic's bottom line. I believe it would be more fun without that facet.

unangbangkay 02-25-2013 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fovrel (Post 8309221)
Why can't I give just marks and EC? So the Romulans can buy there own stuff and why do I have to travel to trader X for commodity A and to trader Y for commodity B, what kind of universe is that. It is like buying a shirt in London, a pair of trousers in Berlin and you get your socks in Oslo. Do they think my space ship runs on empty matter?

You can buy nearly all your Rep commodities from the replicator. It costs about 25% more, but for an active endgame "main" character it's pocket change.

If only you could buy consumables from the replicator, too. THAT'S what doesn't make a ton of sense.

Quote:

It'd make life a lot easier for everyone.
Sadly, that's not the point.

F2P games prize what's called "Daily Participation". It's a critical metric for this type of game, because it maximizes the exposure players have to the most profitable content (i.e. new ships, costumes etc.) while minimizing the feeling of "burnout".

Making things "easier" i.e. very fast would undermine the whole system.

Why? Let's say you spend 30mins to 1h a day in STO. Log in, collect your Rep projects, Duty Officer Assignments, and do the quickest dailies (like the Academy mission, Dilithium mining, etc.). For the average casual player, that's a day well-spent, because every day you come a little bit closer to the next bit of Rep gear or whatever.

Let's say you get bored. Even casuals get bored (Zynga learned this the hard way). But the daily participation, coupled with the fairly regular new content rollouts (Something like 10 new ships in less than 6 months!) tempts you to "spice things up" by splurging on a spiffy new ship to run and re-run ISE and Romulan PUGs on. There's the moneymaker right there.

Even a person who knows exactly what they're doing (like yours truly) is not immune to the call. I just dropped $25 worth of Zen on a new MVAE because I liked the idea of splitting up my "Patrol Escort" and am currently contemplating dropping a little more on the Andorian Escort.

TL;DR: F2P MMOs thrive on making casuals feel like they're not completely wasting the little time they have each day to play games. For me at least, STO has managed that. It's a little bit "dirty" for sure, but so long as it's not entirely egregious (it isn't yet for me), it's good fun.


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