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-   -   Logic trap (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=567401)

resoundingenvoy 02-25-2013 05:34 PM

Logic trap
 
Ok, so tricobolt mines where doing damage so massive they had to be nerfed before even proper testing could be done to realized how cross linked things had become. Basically, if I understand, they allowed people with a certain setup to kill someone without a equally absurd counter. (A setup ignoring all else just for that). They could do this on a 60 second timer. Not only did this have to be stopped, it had to be stopped right this second, and to hell with the consequences.

So I stopped repressing how bad PvP has been borked to realize something: HDC setups with tactical captains have been doing enough damage to burn through 24K+ shields and 80-90% of 50K hull in under one second, in one volley. Assuming the first volly didn't work? There are at worst another three to four on the way before the first ability that allows it expires. This can be done on a 30-90 second timer.

This has been going on for more then a year.

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If one scenario merits a nerf, why does the other not?

dixa1 02-25-2013 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by resoundingenvoy (Post 8310571)
Ok, so tricobolt mines where doing damage so massive they had to be nerfed before even proper testing could be done to realized how cross linked things had become. Basically, if I understand, they allowed people with a certain setup to kill someone without a equally absurd counter. (A setup ignoring all else just for that). They could do this on a 60 second timer. Not only did this have to be stopped, it had to be stopped right this second, and to hell with the consequences.

So I stopped repressing how bad PvP has been borked to realize something: HDC setups with tactical captains have been doing enough damage to burn through 24K+ shields and 80-90% of 50K hull in under one second, in one volley. Assuming the first volly didn't work? There are at worst another three to four on the way before the first ability that allows it expires. This can be done on a 30-90 second timer.

This has been going on for more then a year.

--------

If one scenario merits a nerf, why does the other not?


um...it was like this since launch. pvp here is a joke.

theindefatigable 02-25-2013 07:41 PM

I guess too many "high and mighty" PvP'ers whined too loudly about the tricobalt mines because they were like medieval crossbows...it didn't take a ridiculously well-trained chap to score a lucky hit on a member of the nobility whom they couldn't otherwise kill with sword and shield and lance. The sort of PvP player who thinks they rule the game couldn't handle PvE players and players without mad setups or expensive gear being able to kill them. Funny, those top PvP'ers could shred a lot of my ships--not all--in a fair fight but conversely I never found tric spam to be that huge an issue.

darramouss1 02-25-2013 08:05 PM

And it's because of the above posts and because of Cryptic's obsession with escorts that I refuse to PvP. It's broken. As soon as anything unseats one of the PvP nobility it gets nerfed.

Cryptic can run all the bootcamps they want. Let them run a hundred of them and give free prizes. I won't even consider participating until they fix it. If they do, though, the PvPers will probably cry so loud and long that it will get changed back to its current and pathetic broken form.

mimey2 02-25-2013 08:19 PM

It wasn't JUST PvPers. How quickly folks always point fingers.

In PvE, people were using tric mines to one-shot gates and such, breaking the missions in a way.

darramouss1 02-25-2013 09:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mimey2 (Post 8313281)
It wasn't JUST PvPers. How quickly folks always point fingers.

In PvE, people were using tric mines to one-shot gates and such, breaking the missions in a way.

I'll bet you my spare JHAS that the gates didn't complain but the PvPers did...

resoundingenvoy 02-26-2013 12:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dixa1 (Post 8310921)
um...it was like this since launch. pvp here is a joke.

Yea, but I haven't been around sense launch, and they didn't try to mess with the TB stuff until recently. Unless I missed something the logic for doing one should apply to the other ...

Don't get me wrong, I may not be skipping happy with the way they deal with it, but that fact they took note of a problem and actually did something about it is cool to me.

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Quote:

Originally Posted by darramouss1 (Post 8313671)
I'll bet you my spare JHAS that the gates didn't complain but the PvPers did...

Does that mean if a dev makes the gates say something negative about getting blown up, they get your spare JHAS? :P

squatsauce 02-26-2013 01:11 PM

At some point someone needs to take a look at the current hull/shield values, determine an upper limit to damage resistance (which has been done) and then determine an upper limit to damage output (not been done at all), then set hull and shield values that are meaningful in terms of damage resistance.

Honestly, at some point, I'd like to see a diminishing returns curve for weapons output that mirrors the one for damage resistance, and then set weapons at different points on the curve. A beam array, which is lower on the curve, will get more of a percentage boost from the tac consoles than DHCs, which are higher up. Give them all identical cycle time/ power drain behavior and you've gone a long way towards making the game's PvE and PvP play manageable and balanced.

darramouss1 02-26-2013 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by resoundingenvoy (Post 8324131)
Does that mean if a dev makes the gates say something negative about getting blown up, they get your spare JHAS? :P

Please note that I used the past tense regarding the gates, just in case anyone hacked the gates to say something!!

loading159 02-26-2013 02:58 PM

you do not have to be a hardcore pvper to be good, and you do not have to have the best of the best gear to be good.

I am a casual player, I do well in pvp. I only have ONE piece of mark 12 gear on my ship, the borg cutting beam array. I only use blue mark 11 consoles. I also fly an escort. I have seen other escorts be shredded by cruisers, and I have seen many cruisers be shreded by escorts. Most of the time someone just has not taken the time to ASK FOR HELP with their pvp build and they immediatly go into a rage or just quit.

Also, if you are dieing within one second of an escort shooting at you, then you are doing something wrong. (with your build) It is extremely simple to make a basic defense strategy for every ship in the game. two tac teams to redirect shields, and two emergency power to shield abilities. These abilities will prevent you from dieing within 1 second of anyone shooting you. (unless the tric mines are un fixed and they crit for 150k again)

PLEASE if you did poorly in an arena match or 1v1 someone, do not quit or rage, ask for help. if you want any help send me a mail in game and I will gladly help you. @BigGunner is my @handle. I can help very much with escort builds and some with cruiser builds. but forget science I have no idea how to work one of those fancy ships :)


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