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-   -   Tykens Rift III - What happened to it? (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=569461)

vitzh 02-27-2013 12:39 PM

Tykens Rift III - What happened to it?
 
[start gripe=]

I must confess it's been a while since I've used this ability properly, but I remember pre season 7 having a toon heavily spec'd in the use of this ability being able to drain a large group of targets (and big ones such as a unimatrix and tac cubes) to completely 0 power with the use of this ability for a good few seconds. I mean shields offline, weapons, engines, everything.

So here's the good old gripe that's coming that I'm sure everyone has heard before. Why is when I come back to using it with a toon that's highly spec'd in particle generation I find that this seems like a waste of an ability? Drain is barely noticeable and area of effect is tiny. Anyone got any links to articles, posts or patch notes saying why this was nerfed and when? Cause the last thing I recall is Science needing another nerf, quite opposite.

[=/end gripe]

Quick Edit: Yeah noticed this may is probably incorrect section. Feel free to move. Boff abilities is directly below my bad.

cmdrskyfaller 02-27-2013 12:53 PM

offensive science abilities are all dead and useless now.

no, it doesn't do anything anymore. a full aux pwr + 6pnt flow cap, 6 particle skills , siphon 3 and 6 polaron beams on top of a tyken's 3 doesnt even shut down a borg probe before it crawls from one end of the tyken to the other end and walks away from it.

vs players it does nothing anymore due to insane power insulator bonuses with the most minimum of points spent on it. To tell you that a subsystem attack that is supposed to drain 96 powr from a subsystem only drains 10 pwr and the guy had only 2 pnts in power insulators tell you all you need to know about how screwed the stats are.

vitzh 02-27-2013 01:24 PM

Ah well glad it's just not me. This sucks and actually makes me no longer want to play. It used to be a nice Science Ace in a hole to use. Guess they listened to the people who didn't spec with power insulators and refused to move when a Tykens was dropped. So what is science actually able to do now? Seriously?

sander233 02-27-2013 01:50 PM

What's your Aux power setting?

cmdrskyfaller 02-27-2013 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitzh (Post 8344801)
Ah well glad it's just not me. This sucks and actually makes me no longer want to play. It used to be a nice Science Ace in a hole to use. Guess they listened to the people who didn't spec with power insulators and refused to move when a Tykens was dropped. So what is science actually able to do now? Seriously?

its supposed to sit back and just be an auxiliary healing career. essentially its in the game merely to provide hazard emitters to escorts.

burstorion 02-27-2013 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by vitzh (Post 8344801)
So what is science actually able to do now? Seriously?

Not much - I fly the fdssv, a ship thats all science and little else and it truely is depressing how poor most of my abilities are, even maxxed out

Case in point - grav well 3 ...to be even moderately effective as a weapon, I have had to bring its stats to...well,

5x particle generator Xi blue (romulan, but they are ==xii purple in stats..and yes, this means no shield mods/nice sciency goodies)
Omega deflector
99 max base stat
borg console? (I can't recall if thats particle or graviton..)

..oh and 125 aux (my particle stat is 200-something in total..)

...My gw does a whopping 1600+ damage per second...for twenty seconds, then aftershock gw1s


Sweet, eh?

Only problem is...its kinetic (although in the past it was exotic..) - so you only get six seconds of maximum damage -if- you got a shield side down just as you fire it off otherwise that 1600 per sec is cut dramatically

But then we come to the next issue - the fact any ship can power out of the grav well - it says a lot that to make a gravity well effective, I have to then tractor my main target to force it to fall into the center - or, as a gravity well is AoE, using the graviton pulse console to make them all stay there (which coincidently means to have my cc work on a group, I need to invest 3 points plus in a 3000 a point skill whose main attack, viral matrix is near useless on npcs so its specifically invested for this one console!)

(I know an aux2bat 0 aux tbr would work too...but the dssv can't mount it unless you lose aux2sif...and that heal is important to keeping its hull from folding)

So in effect the best damaging ability in a science ships repetoire:

a) needs insane levels of 'powering up'
b) needs insane levels of aux power
c) neccesitates a torp boat build unless you use a lot of eps consoles
d) requires another skill/ console to be effective

and e) is poleaxed by the merest whiff of a shield side

(also...I'm pretty sure there is no way to improve the pull of the gw as all graviton gens do is make the aoe bigger)

Science needs a severe looking at...it might not be as much of a money spinner as pew pew escorts that a trained Rhesus monkey could pilot to first place, but like the kdf, science needs love too

cmdrskyfaller 02-27-2013 02:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by burstorion (Post 8345391)
Not much - I fly the fdssv, a ship thats all science and little else and it truely is depressing how poor most of my abilities are, even maxxed out

Case in point - grav well 3 ...to be even moderately effective as a weapon, I have had to bring its stats to...well,

5x particle generator Xi blue (romulan, but they are ==xii purple in stats..and yes, this means no shield mods/nice sciency goodies)
Omega deflector
99 max base stat
borg console? (I can't recall if thats particle or graviton..)

..oh and 125 aux (my particle stat is 200-something in total..)

...My gw does a whopping 1600+ damage per second...for twenty seconds, then aftershock gw1s


Sweet, eh?

Only problem is...its kinetic (although in the past it was exotic..) - so you only get six seconds of maximum damage -if- you got a shield side down just as you fire it off otherwise that 1600 per sec is cut dramatically

But then we come to the next issue - the fact any ship can power out of the grav well - it says a lot that to make a gravity well effective, I have to then tractor my main target to force it to fall into the center - or, as a gravity well is AoE, using the graviton pulse console to make them all stay there (which coincidently means to have my cc work on a group, I need to invest 3 points plus in a 3000 a point skill whose main attack, viral matrix is near useless on npcs so its specifically invested for this one console!)

(I know an aux2bat 0 aux tbr would work too...but the dssv can't mount it unless you lose aux2sif...and that heal is important to keeping its hull from folding)

So in effect the best damaging ability in a science ships repetoire:

a) needs insane levels of 'powering up'
b) needs insane levels of aux power
c) neccesitates a torp boat build unless you use a lot of eps consoles
d) requires another skill/ console to be effective

and e) is poleaxed by the merest whiff of a shield side

(also...I'm pretty sure there is no way to improve the pull of the gw as all graviton gens do is make the aoe bigger)

Science needs a severe looking at...it might not be as much of a money spinner as pew pew escorts that a trained Rhesus monkey could pilot to first place, but like the kdf, science needs love too

A small correction needs to be made in your post. I bolded it.

Its not 1600 per second.

Grav well damage falls the farther away from the center of the anomaly until 0 at edge of anomaly. Anomaly is barely 150m wide. Thus a ship crawling away from the center goes from:

1600 @ center
1400 @ 50m from center
1000 @ 80m from center
700 @ 100m from center
...by 150m its at 0.

So you can see the drop in damage is massive and even a borg drone ship moves 150m in a matter of 4 to 6 seconds. Check your combat logs and see the damage drop like a rock.

burstorion 02-27-2013 02:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmdrskyfaller (Post 8345891)
A small correction needs to be made in your post. I bolded it.

Its not 1600 per second.

Grav well damage falls the farther away from the center of the anomaly until 0 at edge of anomaly. Anomaly is barely 150m wide. Thus a ship crawling away from the center goes from:

1600 @ center
1400 @ 50m from center
1000 @ 80m from center
700 @ 100m from center
...by 150m its at 0.

So you can see the drop in damage is massive and even a borg drone ship moves 150m in a matter of 4 to 6 seconds. Check your combat logs and see the damage drop like a rock.

I knew it dropped with distance, but for simplicity I was going by the active tooltip value that takes it from the epicenter of the grav well...even so, I never knew it was -that- drastic a damage reduction on top of the shield/kinetic reduction

vitzh 02-28-2013 05:03 AM

Take it Cryptic haven't said why it was nerfed ridiculously and have no intentions whatsoever of actually making Science decent again?

nicha0 02-28-2013 05:30 AM

In S7 they "fixed" power siphon drones, but nerfed all other drain attacks, essentially making science ships completely useless in PvE
Drain builds used to be able to briefly disable ships, but now even if you get a polaron proc, tykens and energy siphon on one target its doesn't do a whole lot.

The best you can do now is use your lower sci Boffs for heals.


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