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-   -   The Romulan plasma torpedo needs a balance check (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=575321)

diogene0 03-04-2013 04:41 PM

The Romulan plasma torpedo needs a balance check
 
I've been playing with the Romulan torpedo for a while, and it's definitely an improvement over other torpedoes for many reasons. In terms of DPS, it might be really too much though.

First off, i've been using it on two characters with various various skill points in torpedoes, but on no char without any torp skill.

So, the mechanics of this torpedo that may cause some imbalance:

- When you use torpedo spread, it will fire an impressive number of torps. When one of the target is destroyed, none of the torp is wasted, it will be heading towards a new target. So, when you have one battleship with 3 frigates, if frigates are destroyed with scatter volley, then the battleship will likely get blown up in a matter of seconds, thanks to the 20 torps heading to it.

- When you use this torpedo and 3 projectile weapon officers, it's a continous flow of torpedoes. Seriously, it never ends and your ship won't stop making torps. No NPC can whistand such an amount of kinetic damage and plasma burns. It allowed me to kill a no win scenario dreadnought with my sci char on a mobius in less than 30 seconds. And i can destroy an elite cube in less than 15 seconds with my kdf tac char and a torp HY III with most of my buffs activated.

If you combine the two methods, it will likely make any space fleet action, where you have a lot of NPCs, a joke anyone can complete well ahead of time. I've been getting timers i've never had before with such tricks. And of course, when there's a gravity well then no spawn can resist more than a few seconds, whatever NPCs you have in it.

Although it's been fun for some time, I really think this torpedo + 3 torp doffs is mandatory for PvE now. It's just... Too much. While I could use it for myself and be happy with that, I think this is the kind of thing that shouldn't be happening since pathetic NPCs get even more pathetic with that.

I'll try to provide some data soon to prove my point.

ddesjardins 03-04-2013 05:04 PM

First, most if not all of the BO's do not apply to the Romulan torpedo. It even says it in the bo's details. This also seems to apply to the OMEGA torpedo as well.

Second, unless the target is stationary and shield-less, they are ineffective. Yes they can hurt shields, but not as effectively as other torpedoes.

Having played with both sets extensively on 3 toons, there are good and bad aspects to the torpedoes, but I don't believe they are overwhelming or OP. The set bonuses are excellent, and overall they are great siege weapons. However for PvP and PvE ship to ship, the numbers they claim to do do no reflect real world usage.

In general:

Good:
  1. They re-target if the primary is destroyed.
  2. Once locked onto a target, you no longer have to maintain the arc to continue firing from the same volley. Great for Cruisers doing broadsides.
  3. Great kinetic damage on shield-less targets.
  4. AWESOME damage against stationary targets without shields.
  5. Nice 'sticky' hull damage.
  6. Romulan: HY and HY with the Reman speed boost is acceptable.
  7. Omega: TS excellent AOE attack, great against everything. HY Nasty.

Bad:
  1. There is no control on re-targeting. Can be problematic in STF's where timing is important.
  2. Against a moving target: Slow. So slow that most never reach their targets before the target(s) are destroyed. A comparison of the same tank, using Hyper-plasma or Quantums torpedoes across 10 ISE STF's show that the Quantums hit their targets 40% more than plasma torpedoes do. This is due to other weapons superseding the plasma torps arrival.
  3. Terrible shield damage.
  4. Romulan: TS practically useless, again due to speed. Looks great, but very iffy damage due to shield issues.

Summary: I use the Romulan Torp exclusively in HY mode only with the Reman speed boost, and for the 'plasma flux' bonus it generates for the set (experimental array lance damage).

OMEGA is used only as a rear firing mob dispersal, or HY. I have recently dropped it for annother plasma array as I only use the 2nd passive from the OMEGA set.

My Two Bits

Admiral Thrax

darkjeff 03-04-2013 05:05 PM

I was right about to say that you obviously didn't run a parser through it. My repeated tests show it to not be useful (in PvE/STFs).

I suppose it's different with you in a Mobius, but I'm in a JHEC and the three DHCs far, far out damage the Rom Hyper-Plasma torp.

My torps almost never go off on ships, only Negh'vars survive long enough for the torps to hit. Works fine on cubes and Gateways. Torp Spread is also annoying, since you only get 2 per ship, and again my CSV destroys entire groups before the torpedoes even fire, so I end up with 2 on the one survivor, costing myself a torpedo.

In fact, just parsing against the starting tac cube in KSE (which obviously should survive our cannons, and will generally have its shields down while we blast at it) the Hyper-Plasma torps still do less DPS than each individual DHC. (Using AB3, HY3, and CSV1. Yes, High Yield 3, on a single stationary target stripped of its shields, still doesn't do as much as my plasma DHCs with CSV1.)

...also it sets me on fire when the Raptor I'm shooting at flies over me. :P

If I wasn't using it for the 2-piece plasma damage boost, I wouldn't be using it at all.

ddesjardins 03-04-2013 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkjeff (Post 8434521)
I was right about to say that you obviously didn't run a parser through it. My repeated tests show it to not be useful (in PvE/STFs).

I suppose it's different with you in a Mobius, but I'm in a JHEC and the three DHCs far, far out damage the Rom Hyper-Plasma torp.

^ Second this.

diogene0 03-04-2013 05:35 PM

I'm not really talking about STFs, just about two situations, where you have a lot of NPCs. This is why I mention the no win scenario specifically. And battleships+ level NPCs, where the torp is clearly superior to any torp. If it hits shields then you might have a problem with your build, because no NPC should have shields when the romulan torp reaches mobs.

Of course, having a gravity well (on a mobius, you can do that and don't need more heal anyway) will help a lot but it's not mandatory. I've just had results I shouldn't be allowed to have against targets I know well. My previous records were 9.30' left on an infected space elite, and 9.20 minutes left on cure space elite. Both records have been beaten since I'm using this build with heavy torps or spread + 3 projectile weapon officers, with teammates i know well. Of course it's even quicker if everyone uses that. No NPC can withsand that because it's very likely there's no more shields in the first 15 seconds, no matter what the NPC is, even an elite dreadnought.

I bet you've been thinking i've not used a parser because you've not been using 3 PWO doffs. :)

Again you will notice how insane it is in a no win scenario situation and with battleships/dreads/boss fights, just because there are many NPCs at the same time there and you can make a good use of a romulan plasma torpedo spread II or III, or just because the big NPCs are just brainless and powerless huge stacks of HP.

The only NPCs having counters are gorn with aceton assimilator, and to some extent, the queen in hive onslaught, even though her counter is, to say the least rather episodic. All other NPCs will be sent to oblivion in record times if you're using the torp right.

marc8219 03-04-2013 05:51 PM

I notice the same results too when in my Hoh'sus or B'rel using 3 purple doffs. Just endless romulan torp spam, cubes on elite die in 10-20 seconds. The Romulan torps sometimes set off the cubes heavy plasma torps near it too, causing him to instantly pop even faster when this happens without having to risk ramming the torp yourself to do this. I still can do this pretty fast with quantums though, so while it is an improvement in pve, I am not sure if I would call it overpowered.

majortiraomega 03-04-2013 06:12 PM

In my opinion, the Romulan and Omega torpedoes make it possible for science vessels and cruisers to put out decent damage to shielded targets due the shield piercing DoT. Quantums are still the best projectile weapon for escorts due the fact that an escort shreds shields. I would hardly call the torpedoes overpowered due to the huge number of counters and the tiny damage per torp. (Counters include: Photonic Shockwave, Gravity Well, Tykens rift, Tractor Beam Repulsors, Torpedo Spread, Beam Fire at Will, Cannon Scatter Volley, Point Defense Consoles, outrunning the slow torps, etc.) And as for the endless stream of torpedoes, that's due to the fact that it takes about 3 seconds to complete a fire cycle. Even with just one projectile weapon officer equip your cooldown will only be about 1 second.

shadowfang240 03-04-2013 07:13 PM

let's not be giving cryptic any more ideas for things to neuter into uselessness, please....for how much it costs and how long it takes to unlock, it should be strong

darkjeff 03-04-2013 07:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diogene0 (Post 8434911)
I bet you've been thinking i've not used a parser because you've not been using 3 PWO doffs. :)

No, I have. I've got 4 VRs from DOffing, and I did try it (because I was going with Plasma).

On an escort layout (3 DHCs + Torps) it does not do as well. The DHCs will destroy most targets before the torps get to them. Against 3 Negh'vars in CSE, the Rom torps only land once (3 torps on one target) before they die from DHCs with CSV1 + APB3.

The difference again is the ship. You're talking about a Sci torp boat, I'm saying that on a standard escort layout DHC/Torp layout it's strictly inferior to other torpedoes.

Heck, even two quantum torps with the 3 DOffs will give you a constant stream of better torpedoes that don't get shot down and won't blow up from your first victim's warp core beach.

woodwhity 03-05-2013 02:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darkjeff (Post 8436531)
The difference again is the ship. You're talking about a Sci torp boat, I'm saying that on a standard escort layout DHC/Torp layout it's strictly inferior to other torpedoes.


Cruisers do better wothout them to. But its basically a Sci-thing. So nerfing the torpedo -what I dont think will happen- is pretty much the same as nerfing sci^^


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