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-   -   Why STO PVP tournaments fail (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=585701)

naz4 03-16-2013 04:01 PM

Why STO PVP tournaments fail
 
I am really sad about the efforts people put into trying to get a tournament started and it goes nowhere.
Just been thinking about why this happens and here is my humble opinion on it.

Complexity of rules - Yup, thats it. Nothing else.

So this is what i would suggest to CSI or TFS to really kickstart your tournaments:

Only ban the known stuff that is broke or vastly overpowered:

Dkora EMP burst
Boarding parties with an uncurable cooldown bug
Grav pulse
Drain builds
Danubes
Limiting Aceton assimilator numbers
Arguably the cluster torpedo because of the chain crit issue
Arguably the doffs used with scramble sensors

Dont bother limiting / banning anything else. Not many have the patience or the will to strip builds down to be tournament compliant so therefore you gimp the success of the tournament before it starts.

Pandas would be willing to host, but that in itself would gimp the tournament .....lol

I really do think and believe that a big PVE fleet should host it due to neutrality.
This way, there would be no "he said, she said BS" and we could just get on with the fun part: Blowing your opponents up ;)

dontdrunkimshoot 03-16-2013 04:15 PM

i have to agree, eyes role and i close the thread when i see most of the rules. no tier 5 ships? no doffs? only certain weapon types on certain ships? stuff like that is beyond silly, to limiting for me to just jump in and participate

younghustler 03-16-2013 04:17 PM

Hosted by Task Force Specter, best PvE fleet, in my opinion. Duramaster is a great host for these kinds of things, and would be perfect for hosting PvP tournaments.

dummyname 03-16-2013 04:26 PM

Ok howz about this?

Commander level ships, level 6 white gear only, no consoles, no item slots. boffs unlimited. :P

bobtheyak 03-16-2013 05:07 PM

EMP burst and graviton pulse can be cleared by eng team, and scramble is much easier to clear with sci team than in the past (I'm pretty sure the additional doff debuff is cleared by sci team as well).

naz4 03-16-2013 05:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bobtheyak (Post 8619951)
EMP burst and graviton pulse can be cleared by eng team, and scramble is much easier to clear with sci team than in the past (I'm pretty sure the additional doff debuff is cleared by sci team as well).

I guess you dont know the bug about the dkora EMP then......

AOE subnuking effects a good idea with 20sec plus scrambles?

bobtheyak 03-16-2013 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by naz4 (Post 8620131)
I guess you dont know the bug about the dkora EMP then......

...no. I haven't seen it often enough to notice.

Premade vs premade matches have a lot bigger problems than AoE cooldown reduction.

maicake716 03-16-2013 06:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dontdrunkimshoot (Post 8619321)
i have to agree, eyes role and i close the thread when i see most of the rules. no tier 5 ships? no doffs? only certain weapon types on certain ships? stuff like that is beyond silly, to limiting for me to just jump in and participate

that sounds like every one off "themed" event i host...

i hope you werent rolling your eyes at me -sad inquisitor- i just try to host things that are "rp"ish :(

bareel 03-16-2013 08:01 PM

Actually I think they fail mostly because the PvP community lacks an authority on what is broken and what is not aside from Cryptic who says everything is working as intended.

But authority requires power, and power cannot be taken only given. I have yet to see the community get over itself, push egos out of the way, and grant any person or group that authority. Honestly though that has more to do with the era we live in than anything else in my experience it is a very common problem everywhere.

You want a tornie to succeed? Get a few of the prominent fleet leaders together and have them nominate someone to become that authority. Said fleet leaders agree to abide by whatever rules that authority chooses if they like them personally or not. They should be allowed to give input and advise don't get me wrong, but they agree to be bound to those rules and play with them even if they hate them.

Look there is a reason why representative democracy (mostly) works and is a stable form of government compared to true democracy or I can't think of the other one but an organized anarchy. Bah I'll google it and edit later.

darkfader1988 03-16-2013 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bareel (Post 8621651)

You want a tornie to succeed? Get a few of the prominent fleet leaders together and have them nominate someone to become that authority. Said fleet leaders agree to abide by whatever rules that authority chooses if they like them personally or not. They should be allowed to give input and advise don't get me wrong, but they agree to be bound to those rules and play with them even if they hate them.

Sounds legitimate, unfortunately we all experienced in practice how something like this already ended up badly (I cant remember all the details).

Bringing together all the fleet leaders sounds diplomatic, democratic, or whatever you call it. And it all sounds very decent when they are here together on the same voice server.

Unfortunatly what happens next is that topics that has been discussed and agreed upon is being discussed internally in the relevant fleets, being twisted (Intentionally or unintentionally, that doesnt really matter), is being relayed back to other people and fleets, etc. you know where that is leading to.

PvE fleets can be a good idea, but they are often very 'RP/PvE oriented', totally have different views on PvP related aspects, often have some sort of strict internal structure (hierarchy) and I think that will bring us to a relatively strict tournament altogether.

I think alot of us are mature enough that one of the PvP fleets can organize such a tournament, and I'm pretty sure that most of us decent guys all know what abilities, consoles, etcetera are considered OP or bugged.

Hence, OP is not the same as annoying. I know tons of people that find something 'annoying' i.e. AMS and call it OP because of that, but mathematically speaking (Yep, at the end its all maths going on behind the scenes) its really not that OP especially because you give up a free console slot which (can be cleared in an instant) could just as well have been a passive Neutronium MK XII console that gives you a significant boost to your hull throughout the whole match.

There will always be differences of opinions though. But let the people decide if they want to participate in a tournament where only the most Bugged/Overpowered factors have been banned based on the opinions of the majority of the PvP community.

I'm pretty you can throw out a list of stuff thats OP and where most people will agree with. There you go, you got a tournament. Dont ban any setups, factions, classes, because none of that is OP. A decision to go with the ship, faction, team setup you prefer is open to anyone.

I can imagine people that dont have a cstore or pay2win ship are against these open rules, but come on. We are so far away from the introduction to the free to play model in STO now, if you don't want to open your pocket and want to play a game 100% free, just stay in Kerrat or Cap'n'Lulz.

Having that said, lockbox ships or any pay2win consoles have never been a guarantee for a win, not in a 1v1, not in a 5v5. I'm sorry in advance if you have never experienced it though, would be a bummer, yet I constantly see the same argument that this would always be the case, its simply not.

Yep, I will not deny that having two of the exact same setups, a bug versus a defiant, the bug will outclass the defiant. Granted, everyone can see that. (Excluding cloak dynamics) but lets be honest, you won't succeed in a tournament denying those ships (Except for the special cases, 'themed' tournaments etc lol mai kai) because nobody will join, so your only option is to allow. Sure, still a small bunch won't sign up, but the amount of people that won't join is much smaller.


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