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-   -   Armor Slots: a Response to CaptainGeko (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=586181)

mandoknight89 03-17-2013 10:53 AM

Armor Slots: a Response to CaptainGeko
 
First, the relevant three tweets from last night. For those who despise Twitter (as well as for the sake of completeness), this is what he said:
"Thinking about a ship armor slot. But it may stack too high with eng res consoles. Armor can do a lot more than consoles."
"How do you feel about gaining Armor, at the expense of converting existing eng res consoles into something else (don't know what yet)?"
"They could convert into an existing console, or something entirely new (just not direct hull damage mitigation)"

My own thoughts:
  • Existing Engineering consoles, other than armor, are fairly weak. I've found myself considering Engineer console slots (other than the 2 for double Neutronium) to be the place to put Universal consoles, particularly since some (the Borg and Romulan consoles) grant similar bonuses to existing Engineering consoles, but with higher returns.
  • I feel that an armor slot would be beneficial, if other universally useful Engineering consoles were created in the stead of the existing armor consoles (this would also help the Operations Odyssey, Fleet Galaxy, War Bortasqu', and Fleet Negh'var by making their 5th Engineering console slot more valuable). Existing Engineering consoles should get a look at, in order to make them more competitive, particularly for Cruisers (as high-Eng Escorts already have a significant advantage when it comes to RCS Accelerators).
  • While it is possible that Cruisers could receive a second armor slot as their "unique benefit" (similar to how Escorts have a higher turn rate and speed than any other ship, as well as being able to wield Dual Heavy Cannons), I feel that the Warp Core should be the Cruiser's signature strength. Heavier armor could come with it, and could help justify the crippled turn rates compared to similarly sized Escorts and Science Vessels (the Armitage and Vesta are bigger than some Cruisers!), however.
  • I think this is worth evaluating, but I think it would be best to implement it alongside the previously-posed Warp Core and Secondary Deflector slots.

kamiyama317 03-17-2013 11:34 AM

I think its a good idea. I also think Cruisers should get access to Cruiser-only Heavy Armor.

I know some people would complain, but really the only reason to complain about these changes to Armor, is because it's just different. With armor slots in order to gain hull resist, you stick on an armor plate instead of several neutronium consoles. So what? Players can adapt. As long as they change the existing armor consoles into something useful, no one will really lose out.

However I also think they should make some kind of a trinity for ship-specific gear, maybe like this:

Escorts get Dual Heavy Cannons
Cruisers get Heavy Armor
Science Ships get ??? (I'm thinking Secondary Deflectors, maybe prototype warp cores? I don't know)

mandoknight89 03-17-2013 11:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kamiyama317 (Post 8628521)
Science Ships get ??? (I'm thinking Secondary Deflectors, maybe prototype warp cores? I don't know)

The warp core is something that's the Cruiser's schtick. Most Science ships already have a secondary deflector on the model, and adding that slot for Science ships was given by Geko as a possible Science Vessel bonus in a recent interview.

lan451 03-17-2013 12:06 PM

I'm all for adding in armor slots. That's pretty much all I use engineering consoles for anyway. Well that and universals. After that do some change ups to the existing eng consoles and I think he would be on to something.

capnmanx 03-17-2013 12:26 PM

I think I quite like the idea of armour being a distinct ship component; but armour consoles are kind of the only engineering consoles that absolutely everybody can find a use for.

Unless we either got a whole bunch of new engineering consoles that are equally desirable as armour consoles, or existing engineering consoles were improved to have the same broad appeal of amour consoles, then engineering console slots will just become a dumping ground for universals.

Not that I wouldn't mind more free space for universal consoles; but devaluing engineering slots would be a pretty unbalanced way to bring that about.

bpharma 03-17-2013 12:40 PM

Whoa, hold it up a sec, there are engineering consoles apart from neutronium!?!

To be honest I would much rather see a slot for different warp cores. You can then make some that will give +15 to all power levels, reduces energy drain from using powers, enhances shield regen ticks or engineering abilities by 5-10%. That's what I can think of in the minute I take to type this, I'm sure there is much more that can be done.

Armour, well your 3rd neutronium only gives you 5% more resist so really only 2 neutroniums are worth it with the current damage resist mechanics. A special armour slot for cruisers would mean you have to slot less armour consoles but other than universal consoles there would be nothing to put in said engineering slots.

esquire1980 03-17-2013 12:50 PM

I'm not totally against an armor slot altho.........., armor values of the slot would have to at least EQUAL the existing armor benefits of what we use now. Anything else would be a NERF and I expect that Cryptic is looking at this to nerf escorts and buff crusiers now. Now later on or even in the same CHANGE, if you want to add BETTER armor or more armor slots for crusiers/science that's a totally different story. Addition balance takes away basicly nothing from anyone. The CHANGE needs to equal what stats everyone has now and then I would doubt you'd hear even a forum squeak about it other than raves.

I have seen Cryptic change consoles before (such as the shield effectiveness console just before F2P) and mostly what they pick to change it to is almost worthless. This then becomes a NERF, pure and simple. There are some players who have played the Mk XII console lottery to the extent of having all or most of their consoles now at Mk XII purple. I believe you might find the forums blowing up and/or alot less dedicated players if all or some of these consoles are made worthless junk, that is bound, and the only thing you can do with them is sell them to the replicator.

snoggymack22 03-17-2013 01:28 PM

I think Geko's running out of ideas, but that the lockbox and c-store model is continually pressuring him to make newer, more enticing ships available. So he's stuck, and has painted himself into a corner since the Excelsior was first released.

I also think these ideas will only make his job harder since he's not done a great job on ship balance thus far. Giving him more variables to juggle will only magnify the problems.

Back when the game launched, there was balance. Your admiral ship went one of two directions ... an extra slot in one of the two professions/classes your ship was not classified as. (So cruisers, havin engineering slant, had one choice tactical in the assault cruiser, and one choice science in the star cruiser).

All the "extras" were just cosmetic. As in ... ship costumes.

Well here we are, three years later, with Geko having to do something because of all that mudflation he couldn't manage properly since someone at Cryptic felt they'd sell more if they gave "power" along with cosmetics.

I mean god, it was so stupid. Back then people would have lined up to purchase the SKIN of the Excelsior. Because they were fans of the ship. But nope, Cryptic had to sell power right along with it.

And now, that we've pretty much reached a glass ceiling on what can be done, but need to keep cramming more items for sale into the model ...

We have to give the guy who couldn't design the Nebula properly, the chance to expand the system he himself help break?

Yeah, go for it.

skyranger1414 03-17-2013 01:37 PM

An armor slot is an interesting idea but I think most people posting are missing what's really wrong here.

Cruiser pilots aren't upset that their ships aren't tanky enough, they're upset they're so slow and do less damage than escorts. An armor slot would only serve to make a cruiser tankier, even if there was a "light armor" option reducing defenses for extra speed and turning it wouldn't be a total solution.

capnmanx 03-17-2013 01:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by skyranger1414 (Post 8630441)
An armor slot is an interesting idea but I think most people posting are missing what's really wrong here.

Cruiser pilots aren't upset that their ships aren't tanky enough, they're upset they're so slow and do less damage than escorts. An armor slot would only serve to make a cruiser tankier, even if there was a "light armor" option reducing defenses for extra speed and turning it wouldn't be a total solution.

It's not like he said it would be for cruisers only.

Besides, if armour consoles were out of the equation, then there's more room for RCS consoles and those plasma manifold things that boost weapon energy; so it would help cruisers a little in those respects (more so than ship types with fewer eng console slots anyway).


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