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-   -   Death of Sci and Tank roles. (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=587851)

deokkent 03-19-2013 06:14 AM

Death of Sci and Tank roles.
 
All content is dps oriented, basically all missions progress is faster and much more enjoyable with the builds that can produce the most damage. Sci and tanks fail at that so hard it's not even funny. Support roles are no longer required nor necessary. Currently, unless you are very bad at making adequate builds, you can heal/support yourself with just lieutenant eng/sci and usually you can survive long enough to finish off most opponents. No need for support from tanks or sci.

Do not get me wrong, this is not a cruiser vs escort build threads (we already have enough of those lol). This is about the fundamental roles of tanks/sci builds and their eventual future extinction. A cruiser can be build to tank, but in consideration of current content, it is so much more rewarding to scrap the tankiness for you and your team to boost your personal dps and power levels with abilities like aux to batteries (technician doff) or directed energy modulation, why not? Extend shields is a very useless ability, arguably still of some importance in PvP (debatable). Sci used to pride themselves at being the best healers/strongest shields with incredible ability to disable a ship's subsystem. Except that now, you have hybrids weapons (polarized phased weapons = subsystem targeting), sub nuc doff, lieutenant cmdr sci station equipped escorts/cruisers etc...

I saw a vesta doing 10k dps thread, it's built like a cruiser. Link
I saw a cruiser doing ~9k dps youtube vid, its skill tree is similar to that of an escort. Link

These above are indeed exceptional builds, but it does illustrate my point I'm trying to make people see in this thread.

Don't build a science vessel like a science vessel, and you perform better.
Don't build a cruiser starship like a cruiser, and you perform better.

Hence the title, death of sci and tank roles.

valoreah 03-19-2013 06:32 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deokkent (Post 8664421)
Don't build a science vessel like a science vessel, and you perform better.
Don't build a cruiser starship like a cruiser, and you perform better.


Not true on both counts.

deokkent 03-19-2013 06:41 AM

Ok? :rolleyes:

valoreah 03-19-2013 06:47 AM

Your post is attempting to claim that using pure Science and pure Cruiser doesn't make them effective. That's simply not true whatsoever.

My pure Science builds have no problem controlling/debuffing enemies while buffing teammates as they annihilate targets. My tank Cruiser has no issues getting and holding aggro while the rest of the team finishes off a target. Both are very, very effective in their roles.

If you want high DPS, then pilot an escort. DPS their role is. It's amazing so few people seem to understand this basic aspect of the game.

woodwhity 03-19-2013 07:02 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by valoreah (Post 8664611)
Not true on both counts.

Second that.

deokkent 03-19-2013 07:17 AM

You can crowd control and support all you want and you can be really good at it. Fact still remains, any escort equipped with plasma dhc + omega torp will melt groups of spheres in seconds with AoE without any sci debuffs. In any good team, your grav well will probably save them 30sec of playtime? Maybe?

Also an advanced escort has a lt cmdr sci station, this is an escort that can crowd control... Lmao. Never mind that escort can heal very well.

I'm saying effective pure sci/cruiser builds are no longer required in dps oriented content.

Edit: I am guessing this thread will be about dps role vs other roles. And I think this will hit home with many people, especially those that wanted more dps in their cruisers.

valoreah 03-19-2013 07:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deokkent (Post 8665071)
You can crowd control and support all you want and you can be really good at it. Fact still remains, any escort equipped with plasma dhc + omega torp will melt groups of spheres in seconds with AoE without any sci debuffs. In any good team, your grav well will probably save them 30sec of playtime? Maybe?

Try playing on Elite difficulty and running ESTFs. You're not "melting groups of spheres" solo in them whatsoever. DHCs or not DHCs. That's where proper builds filling their respective roles and good teamwork shine.

Quote:

I'm saying effective pure sci/cruiser builds are no longer required in dps oriented content.
And you would be wrong.

deokkent 03-19-2013 08:16 AM

What is a tank for? Sure it's nice to have premade groups with sci and tanks, it might save me a battery or two. I can tank fine an elite tactical cube in my fleet patrol escort. It doesn't help to grab aggro and tank for everyone, they can manage on their own already if they're spec'ed right with a proper build. 5 tac captain in good escorts finish CSE in <5min usually, sure one might get to die once or twice (most likely due to ignoring that heavy torp heading your way). Bring pure tanks or two pure sci, CSE is suddenly 10min long. I even took out a transformer on my own in my mirror qin raptor in infected elite, didn't die even once! Took me around 5min but I managed. This shouldn't be possible without another ship supporting me.

valoreah 03-19-2013 09:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by deokkent (Post 8665671)
I can tank fine an elite tactical cube in my fleet patrol escort.

Uh huh. :rolleyes: Post a YouTube video of it. I'm sure everyone would love to see your build and how you do this.

reyan01 03-19-2013 09:30 AM

Have to admit, whilst I don't wish to make this some kind of anti-escort rant, I have to admit that, on the rare occasion that it occurs, it has become a little tiresome entering a Fleet Alert/Azure Rescue/STF etc etc to find yourself with a group of escorts who barely give you enough time to fire off GWIII before everything is reduced to debris.

Though I conceed that said scenario is better than clueless rainbow-boats with DPS that kill the enemy through reducing the crew to fits of laughter, rendering them unable to actually operate their ship(s), or making them autodestruct to make the rainbow-boats feel better.


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