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-   -   Full 3D Space Flight - As an Option (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=590531)

seraphantilles 03-21-2013 10:47 AM

Full 3D Space Flight - As an Option
 
I'm really tired of not being able to fly directly UP or directly DOWN. It's really lame for a space game to not allow directly vertical flight up and down.

I get it that you want to keep it 'easy' for players but seriously, for me, it does NOT make it easier. It's much HARDER to play this game as a result of this. Not being able to fly in a direct straight line between two points, but instead, having to do some weird corkscrew maneuver to get there, is NOT EASIER.

Please allow a checkbox in the game's preferences to allow for full vertical flight. I know that this is an available option in your game engine and I'm disappointed that you guys have ignored players' previous requests to enable this feature (at least as an option). I realize most people don't care but I have some very valid reasons for requesting this.

Especially in PVP matches, often the group of people is way above you and you have to "corkscrew" to get up there.

That's not so bad in a fast escort with a good turn radius. But in an Odyssey the turn radius is huge and therefore just to corkscrew up into the fight I often have to fly over 10km away from the fight, then circle back, just to get up there. It's ridiculous.

To make matters worse, the good escort pilots will often corkscrew straight down or up to get away from me in a fight. They know that in order to chase them I'll have to corkscrew down as well, but since my turn radius is so huge, I'll end up over 10km out of range, even with Evasive Maneuvers.

Then there are the PVE scenarios where a ship is directly above or below you for whatever reason. This happens a lot in things like Starbase 24. A ship will be above me to the point that I cannot directly hit it with dual heavy cannons even though I'm facing it. I just can't angle my ship upwards enough.

I tried the Fleet Turn x3 engines but they do jack. They are fully broken and no one will admit it or fix it. Piling on RCS consoles makes me pretty squishy, and the saucer separation console has a 5-minute cooldown that lasts between respawns (why? why does it matter? why have this long cooldown? sorry that's another post).

Lastly: I get it that you might think this would make things unfair in PVP, where people who enable this option would gain an advantage. Well, given that there is already so much insane imbalance in PVP, what's one more unbalancing thing to add to the gigantic pile of unbalancing factors? We all know that the elite PVP players would all figure it out quite easily and become that much better, and the crappy PVP players who never win anyway would continue to lose badly. What difference would it really make?

At least make the game play like it should. A space game should have full 3D movement. I'm going to continue to request this until it happens. Maybe it's a lost cause but for the love of God, please do this.

maxvitor 03-21-2013 10:51 AM

Get in line. You are not the 1st person to ask for this and it has been requested by people from day 1. The answer has always been no, CBS doesn't like the idea of upside down ships, some people claim players will get disoriented, Star Trek has always had a ships at sea look, etc. It's a load of bunk but there it is.

boglejam73 03-21-2013 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxvitor (Post 8718841)
It's a load of bunk but there it is.

Not that I wouldn't like up/down movement myself, but how are any of the reasons you yourself mentioned for not implementing this a load of bunk?

If the license holder says no, you have no options.

If the developer worries players would become disoriented, that seems like a valid (althou way too hand-holding-of-players) reason.

And yes, almost all of the TV and movie trek ship combat has been depicted as ship-at-sea type combat.

So while I would like up/down movement, the reasons stated for not implementing it aren't "a load of bunk."

maxvitor 03-21-2013 11:31 AM

Having full 3d flight would not detract from the game in any way and the reasons given are unconvincing. Take a look at battles in episodes from DS9 on and pretty much any movie after Generations and you see ships doing aerobatics that are impossible in this game. Sure maybe it should be scaled so that the larger the ship the less rotational ability it has, but ships shouldn't be as restricted as they are. In Champions Online which uses the same engine flight doesn't have these limitations, there may be no roll control put pitch isn't limited and everything has the ability to translate vertically and horizontally. In this game there is no reason why a captain shouldn't be able to rise and drop without having to waste time with flying in shallow inclines, they would still look like ships at sea look but they would act like submersibles rather than jumbo jets.
The game is essentially stuck in TOS mode.

boglejam73 03-21-2013 11:40 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maxvitor (Post 8720501)
Having full 3d flight would not detract from the game in any way and the reasons given are unconvincing. Take a look at battles in episodes from DS9 on and pretty much any movie after Generations and you see ships doing aerobatics that are impossible in this game. Sure maybe it should be scaled so that the larger the ship the less rotational ability it has, but ships shouldn't be as restricted as they are. In Champions Online which uses the same engine flight doesn't have these limitations, there may be no roll control put pitch isn't limited and everything has the ability to translate vertically and horizontally. In this game there is no reason why a captain shouldn't be able to rise and drop without having to waste time with flying in shallow inclines, they would still look like ships at sea look but they would act like submersibles rather than jumbo jets.
The game is essentially stuck in TOS mode.

If you limit it to up/down, I would agree.

If you want rotation on long axis, I would have to say no. We never ever saw anyone turn on the view screen and the other guys ship was upside down. I can only think of one movie example (in Nemesis) and one tv example (in Enterprise) where they even showed a ship do a rotation.

papertoasty 03-21-2013 11:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boglejam73 (Post 8719161)
And yes, almost all of the TV and movie trek ship combat has been depicted as ship-at-sea type combat.

dont forget in wrath of khan during the last battle where spock says something about 2-dimentional thinking and they start doing some z-axis maneuvering.

but overall yea in all the shows and movies its more 2-D with a tiny bit of z-axis flying around

boglejam73 03-21-2013 11:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by papertoasty (Post 8720851)
dont forget in wrath of khan during the last battle where spock says something about 2-dimentional thinking and they start doing some z-axis maneuvering.

but overall yea in all the shows and movies its more 2-D with a tiny bit of z-axis flying around

Z-axis I would be totally cool with. Ships doing barrel rolls or zipping around sector space upside down? not so much.

skollulfr 03-21-2013 11:50 AM

personally i think its well within the bounds of the game to have 6dof.
they dont even need to fully invest in changing the entire game to this, just take inspiration from colonywars and star trek: invasion and put out some ''fighter'' based content.

not like the story for it would be that hard

borg probes blah blah
temporal rift blah blah
to small for ships of the line blah blah
sending fighters

throw some pvp in there and they could even prototype the bridge/cockpit view.

then once they have tested the water they can play more.


Quote:

Originally Posted by maxvitor (Post 8720501)
The game is essentially stuck in TOS mode.

a few of the tos novels i read depicted the tos era's ships as quite a bit more dynamic than they are on screen, let alone ingame.

maxvitor 03-21-2013 12:08 PM

I think just enabling the Z axis would be enough even if they made it as slow as reverse impulse. We don't have distinct dorsal and ventral shields so there is no real need to roll to protect either, but getting at targets that are well above or below the ship are a real hassle.

nierion 03-21-2013 12:21 PM

This has been one of my main issues as well. I'm not saying we should be able to do barrel rolls but at least give us Z-Axis movement and allow us to fly directly up and down. Along with space feeling really small, these are the 2 main things I think need changing....

Space needs to be bigger and space flight / combat needs improving.


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