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-   -   Medical Vanguard (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=615401)

tk79 04-10-2013 11:00 AM

Medical Vanguard
 
TL;DR

It is way too powerful.

LONG VERSION

This trait gives the following effects for 4s:

- Perfect Shields (no bleedthrough)
- 50% shield resistance
- Moderate Shield Heal (apparently enhanced by Creative trait - needs confirmation)

I can make such effects permanent with the following heal chain, with a 4s interval between each activation:

- Medical Tricorder
- Vascular Regenerator
- Medical Tricorder
- Triage

It is repeatable without downtime.

Every time one of the skills above is executed, I'll have: Perfect Shields, 50% shield resist and get a shield heal.

Note: I am not even considering Nanite Health Monitor here. Currently, it's broken, and it will give the above effects for the full duration of the buff. But, we can also consider that activating Nanites will trigger the trait. Due to the bug, it is unknown at this time if the charges will also trigger it.

"Perfect Shield" means that melee weapons and skills, and kinetic skills will be completely absorbed by shields. The incoming damage will be reduced by 50%, which is already above the average armor resistance you get due to diminishing returns.

Consider a superbuffed Lunge. It will only damage shields because of no bleedthrough. Its damage will be cut in half. And within the 4 second window of the buff, another shield heal will be incoming. If any of the damage reached health by any chance, it will also be healed within 4s.

If you ask me, this is way better than any Engineer shield tanking combination because it can be made permanent with proper timing. The trait is a mix of the best things Engineer skills have to offer; and on top of that, offers Perfect Shielding, which Engineer skills don't have, outside of DOFFs. *And* it heals armor.

WHY IS THIS AN ISSUE

A single trait should not be more powerful than a class designed to have hardened shields. Engineers can achieve hardened shields with an uptime of 33% with no armor healing. Medical Vanguard allows a science officer to have hardened shields with a 100% uptime PLUS armor healing.

Engineering skills for comparison:

- Reroute Power to Shields: 50% shield resist, small shield regen, 33% uptime
- Shield Recharge: large shield heal, 12s recharge (compared to Medical Vanguard's 4s), 30% shield resist (25% uptime)
- Equipment Diagnostics: 20+% shield resist, small armor resist, 33% uptime

Expose enemy chance not taken into account because both Engineering and Science skills do it anyway.

SUGGESTIONS

I believe that doing ONE of the following changes would make the trait less overpowered:

1) decrease the trait duration to 1~2s, so it can not be made permanent.

2) remove ONE of the shield components of the trait: "shield heal", "shield resistance", or "perfect shielding".

CONCLUSION

You might think this a knee-jerk reaction because my main in fact is an Engineer. But I play all careers in this game and I enjoy them all. I would not like to see one single trait basically nullify one of the other careers' advantages.

voxinvictus 04-10-2013 11:54 AM

I wouldn't mind this trait being so ridiculously good, since the tactical traits are also ridiculously good, except that the engineering traits are kind of bad.

The stacking shield resist is pretty weak considering how easily shields are knocked down in ground combat, and a small resist and regen for pets is bad for a lot of reasons (most engineer kits don't have pets, and pets are easily resummoned, etc). No one is going to use them just because they get a small resist and regen.

If Engineer pets automatically applied a 7 second vulnerability, on the other hand, or increased my critical chance by 7.5%, or caused my target to take 25% more damage, etc, then maybe we'd be having a conversation about it...

TL;DR: Science ground traits are OP, but so are tactical (maybe moreso). Engineer ground traits, on the other hand, are very "balanced" (AKA weak).

tk79 04-10-2013 12:21 PM

I agree that the Engineering ground traits are bad. But I also have the opinion that traits are supposed to be just so: minor advantages for your character. Not complete game changers. That's why I don't ask for buffs in the Engineer traits, although I wouldn't be opposed to them if they're reasonable.

On Tactical traits, Situation Awareness no longer gives a 100% expose on grenades as per latest patch. I had a problem with that trait being OP before, but now it's fine and "balanced" (aka weak). I was hoping Medical Vanguard would get some attention in that department.

adjudicatorhawk 04-10-2013 12:24 PM

Yeah, it's definitely too good at the moment. I'm in the process of re-working it not to be about shields, since that's not really the Science niche on the ground.

diogene0 04-10-2013 12:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk (Post 9153141)
Yeah, it's definitely too good at the moment. I'm in the process of re-working it not to be about shields, since that's not really the Science niche on the ground.

What about an immunity to KB effects? When i'm locked in kb with my sci, my nanites can't be triggered. :)

tk79 04-10-2013 12:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diogene0 (Post 9153271)
What about an immunity to KB effects? When i'm locked in kb with my sci, my nanites can't be triggered. :)

I'd prefer they fixed the entire KB-lock issue once and for all, for everyone.

But while that doesn't happen, you have Sure Footed as an option now (KB immunity while crouched). While it appears to be OP, it's balanced around the fact that crouch already has a disadvantage built in.

arxial 04-10-2013 01:04 PM

Frankly, I like the idea of a shield resist boost for Sci's when healing themselves. It'll extend their lifespan a bit longer, and maybe drop a couple more heals on their buddies. It is UTTERLY ridiculous to call this trait too powerful as it stands against the newer traits coming into play. Fast firing Mk.X Tetryon or Pha/Tet with even crappy modifiers can wipe out shields like nothing else. Give the Sci's some love too.

Either that, or make it an additional FLAT armor resist, like 10% stacking up to 2x. Tacs can already oneshot most Eng/Sci on ground, even heavily buffed. I ain't saying to level the playing field, just make it worthwhile for a ground Sci captain to have.

tk79 04-10-2013 01:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by arxial (Post 9153801)
It is UTTERLY ridiculous to call this trait too powerful as it stands against the newer traits coming into play.

Let's compare how Science fare against the opposite newer traits:

Tactical:

- Situational Awareness: 25% chance to expose on grenades. Science Captains have no reason to worry about exposes at all. Advantage to Science.

- Strike Team Specialist: 40% chance of +2.5% critical on attack. A convoluted process (chance of chance). The likelihood of it happening consistently won't make a difference against solid Science heals.

Engineering:

- Nanomolecular Architect: +10 resistance and +0.8 regen to pets. No tangible difference and pets will be just destroyed as fast as usual.

- Shield Harmonic Resonance: if anything, it will only slightly affect your ability to take down an Engineer. Doesn't make any difference in Science tanking.

Do you really, really want to compare Medical Vanguard to any of the above?

radkip 04-10-2013 01:56 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tk79 (Post 9153551)
While it appears to be OP, it's balanced around the fact that crouch already has a disadvantage built in.

Not even. The dodge bonus from crouching outweighs the damage resistance penalty to melee. You'll be taking less damage if you dodge, and pretty much everyone is near 100% dodge while crouched.

zeuxidemus001 04-10-2013 02:51 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adjudicatorhawk (Post 9153141)
Yeah, it's definitely too good at the moment. I'm in the process of re-working it not to be about shields, since that's not really the Science niche on the ground.

One thing related to that is a lot of stuff benefits the sci's thats not science all the while you have all these science kits that do not really have much place for a sci to be useing. Most sci's only use medic/borg medic kit or physicist. The other ones their powers just do not come anywhere near as useful. One thing in regards to these passives is possibly re-working them where they are beneficial to other science kits.


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