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-   -   Mirror DSSV support build (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=622811)

cmdrscarlet 04-17-2013 09:05 AM

Mirror DSSV support build
 
Heyo,

This is my first real attempt at "building" a ship. Usually I just go with what I want to do, get what I think will do that job, learn if it works for me, then tweak the deficiencies. This works well for solo play.

BUT - I read a lot of complaints from veteran players about other players (mostly about AFKers and poor ability use). Every now and then, I read about someone's rant on other players build being a contributing factor to poor performance.

I'm not asking to make the perfect Science ship, I doubt that is possible. But I am wondering about feedback for the layout I have planned below. Admittedly, I have not tested it yet, but I have used the boat with various other consols and BOff abilities and it works for solo play.

This design is geared for PvE group play, specifically for PUGs (since my once-per-week game time does not coicide with my Fleet groupings).

My thoughts are this: my primary role is to support the "tank", secondary is assisting the Escort by making their ability for effective, tertiary is to provide my own pew pew.

Having said that:

Luna - Mirror DSSV

Fore Weapons (Aft Weapons same)
- Tetryon Beam Array x2
- Photon Torpedo

Deflector - Aegis
Impulse - Aegis
Shields - Aegis

Engineering Consoles
- RCS Accelerator
- Field Emitter
- Emergency Force Field

Science Consoles
- Field Generator
- Emitter Array
- Enhanced Plasma Manifold
- Graviton Pulse Generator

Tactical Consoles
- Tetyron Pulse Generator x2

Lieutenant Tactical station
- Tactical Team I
- Attack Pattern: Delta I

Ensign Engineering station
- Em. Power to SIields I
- Extend Shields I

Lieutenant Engineering station
- Engineering Team I

Lt. Commander Science station
- Science Team I
- Transfer Shield Strength II
- Scramble Sensors II

Commander Science station
- Jam Sensors I
- Hazard Emitters II
- Tachyon Beam III
- Gravity Well III

Thank you for looking :)

jadensecura 04-17-2013 10:49 AM

Drop the RCS Accelerator and Field Emitter, they don't provide a useful benefit to almost any ship, and certainly not this one, the Emergency Force Field is also highly questionable, only worthwhile if you have all human boffs (and they're getting nerfed with the expansion). You can then move the universals into those slots and add the Assimilated Module and Zero Point Energy Conduit (from rep) as soon as possible, in the meantime get sci consoles that boost whatever you're doing. I've never liked that weapon set up, DBBs and turrets are typically better (due to the targeting arcs on most sci abilities and their higher DPS), but I guess you can use it if you want. Definitely replace ET1 with another EPtS1, you want that chain, and the ET just interferes with your other two teams. Extend Shields is ok, but also consider A2SIF, it's a nice hull heal/resist buff that can be used on yourself or others. Drop Jam Sensors, it's barely better than an empty slot for PvE, and gives you room for an extra heal. Scramble is scarcely better, and Tachyon Beam also barely does anything, so give serious consideration to dropping those to either boost your healing capabilities (since you're mainly thinking of this as a heal boat and you can have 2 copies of both HE and TSS) or boost your offensive debuffs with things like Energy Siphon or Tyken's Rift (both power drains with an extra effect, self power buff for the former, small AoE damage for the latter).

Of course, the whole concept isn't very relevant to PvE, nobody really needs the amount of help you can provide (either they can tank anything on their own or they die harder than you can fix, and sci debuffs are never much help to killing things because they're so weak), which is why most people don't go for a heal boat but instead an offensive build. On my Vesta I have TT1, 2xEPtS1, A2SIF1, HE1, ST1, and TSS2, and everything else in the build goes to offense. You can see it here: http://www.stoacademy.com/tools/skil...=Secura04_2511

theodrim 04-17-2013 11:11 AM

I'll throw in some feedback.

First, unless someone is doing something patently silly any reasonable player can look at and say, "that's silly", like a MES-based rainbow boat, it's not the build. It's about the player. Most of the time, when someone's complaining about a "build" it's from a min-max/SHFG perspective and should be rightfully disregarded unless that's the advice you're after. That said...

Stay away from tetryons, really that proc is terrible. It doesn't happen enough to justify using tetryons, and the proc damage is horrid for what it is. If you're going to go with tetryons, at least used phased or polarized hybrid weapons for the additional utility. Otherwise, for a pure support build you're better off going with disruptor in my humble opinion -- polaron if you're using the Jem'Hadar set. Besides, you have enough science slots you can devote a few to doff-enhanced tractors, tachyon beam, CPB, and TR to knock off shields if you must.

Plus, if this is for STF's, suppressing shields is much more effectively-handled by the cruisers and escorts with which you're invariably running.

With two beam arrays fore and aft, I'm guessing you're looking at broadsiding. In a Luna-class, you don't want to do this, and there are two reasons why. First, you're going to be running into serious power issues -- broadsiding eats a lot of weapons power, which is going to seriously handicap you as you'll either find your dealt damage bottoming out, or be forced to assign power to weapons...and since you're flying sci, you need your aux and that power has to come from somewhere.

Second, the Luna is an agile little ship and you'll have no problems getting and keeping enemies in your frontal arc. That opens up two possibilities that are more power-friendly without major concessions on damage: a DBB/turret setup, or a cannon/turret setup. Either have their benefits and drawbacks: running DBB's enables innate subsystem targeting (and matches your torpedo arc), running cannons is a skosh more damage.

Lastly, this is purely opinion on my part, but a word about your tactical boff slot. Most folks run tactical team as it is, either for its shield-rebalancing effect or purely by accident ("herp derp moar deepz"). The option to have it is nice, but most "tank" captains who know their stuff will either already have it; conversely, know to constantly rebalance their shields while TT is on cooldown, and therefore need 360-degree shield heals to fuel their own efforts. With three team powers, you'll find one constantly being kept out of the cooldown loop with how shared cooldowns work; that makes for a good opportunity to swap out tactical team for a torpedo power, to make yourself a bit burstier for when enemy shield facings go down.

cmdrscarlet 04-17-2013 02:11 PM

Woo these are great suggestions! Thank you for your time and input :)

Admittedly, I play a cruiser in solo play so I am indeed used to broadsides. One of the common notes above is the weapon loadout should change. Consider that advise taken! I wasn't too sure about beam type so reading that Tetryon is less optimal than it looks is reassuring (I guess I should have NOT crafted those :P )

BOff powers and consoles are a discussion I was hoping to get feedback from because they are so varied and all of them look good on paper, so I am relying a lot on experience I don't have to help me earn experience without having others suffer from my ignorance ... if that made sense.

Hmm ... go for offense versus buff/debuff because its PvE?

jadensecura 04-17-2013 04:28 PM

The thing with running a healer build in PvE, STFs in particular, is that there are really just 3 main ways people die. One is that they simply don't have good survivability in their build, or don't know when to use their survival abilities, and then come under an ordinary fairly heavy amount of fire. If that's the case you might buy them a few more seconds, but they're still going to end up dead pretty rapidly and you won't be able to save them. Then there are the times when it's just straight up too much firepower, like getting all of the spheres in ISE on you at once (happens to me a lot), which is just going to overwhelm anything anyone can do. And finally there are the massive torp hits that can be 100k damage through full shields, and the only way anyone ever survives those is if they hit Brace for Impact at just the right moment. There are, as always, occaisional exceptions, but that is the rule on how these things go. So ultimately a healer build isn't very useful, and that's the only kind of team buff build we have.

For enemy debuffing, that comes down to the power drains (which are unfortunately quite weak, but probably the best we've got), the AoE damage abilities (which can stop heavy plasma torps, but do little else), and resistance debuffs (the main one of which is APB, a tac ability). The other options are holds, disables, and sensor things, but the dangerous targets move too slowly to be worth holding, the disable abilities are too short and random to be of much use for PvE (in PvP throwing your target off a little for a few seconds can get you a kill, though), and the sensor things are too short, break too easily, and don't even matter half the time because of the structure of the fight.

So what you tend to see on sci builds is Grav Well and/or Repulsors (to control the movement of smaller enemy vessels that are critical to the optional), and then some power drains and things to try to make the enemies a little less potent. Probably the best of those is Siphon, followed by Tyken's, and of course GW and TBR have a secondary role in stopping those torps (but be very very careful with TBR, you can't move a structure, cube, or tac cube, but anything else will go flying very rapidly, which can cause major problems, I don't even trust myself with the thing).

Finally, a note on teams. For STFs I would consider Tac Team the most important of the 3, because it's the one that counters the main annoying debuff the borg have: Assimilate Ship. If left active that will put all your abilities on cooldown, first for around 1 second, then a little longer, then again a little longer, until its uptime finally runs out. That's a major detriment to your capabilities, but Tac Team can remove it instantly.

theodrim 04-17-2013 07:07 PM

That's why I go with PSW instead of TBR in most cases, personally -- that little bit of knockback and disable it has does the job, while being controllable enough to not worry about using it. Plus, if you're lucky enough to catch an enemy with their shield facing down it can do a real number on them.

My go-to move in something like ISE when I have to "hold the line" so to speak is to fly in, CPB, PSW, and follow up with a spread of tricobalt torpedoes. Worst-case scenario there, I've bought 10-20 seconds for the team. If I ever remember to do it when I'm at an exchange terminal, buying theta radiation vents is on the list since EWP just can't be used by most science vessels.

Though, moving on. The thing about assimilate ship, at least in my experience, is the only time as a science ship you'll get it is if you've managed to hack off the borg righteously enough you're going to end up vaporized one way or the other. Don't let that be a sole arbiter of the choice to take tactical team or not. It's a great ability, and unless you have specific other plans it's probably your best choice, but on the other hand it's hardly "absolutely, positively under any circumstance must" have.

cmdrscarlet 04-30-2013 11:35 AM

Soooo ....

I've considered the replies, looked at a few other threads, abused work-time looking at STO Wiki and made copious notes. I've tinkered with the below build but not all the consoles are in place. She's doing well against Klingons, Terrans, and Gorn. But this is really trying to get into STFs as I prefer my Cruiser in solo play.

Check this out: Luna - Mirror DSSV

Fore Weapons (Aft Weapons same)
- Phased Tetryon Double Beam Bank x2
- Photon Torpedo

Aft Weapons
- Phased Tetryon Turret x3

Deflector/Impulse/Shields - Aegis

Engineering Consoles
- Tachyokinetic Converter
- Theta Radiation Vents
- Booster Module*

Science Consoles
- Field Generator
- Flow Capacitors
- Enhanced Plasma Manifold
- Particle Generator

Tactical Consoles
- Tetyron Pulse Generator x2

Lieutenant Tactical station
- Tactical Team I
- Attack Pattern: Delta I

Ensign Engineering station
- Em. Power to SIields I

Lieutenant Engineering station
- Em. Power to SIields I
- Direct Energy Modulation I

Lt. Commander Science station
- Science Team I
- Charged Particle Burst I
- Energy Siphon II

Commander Science station
- Polarize Hull I
- Hazard Emitters II
- Tachyon Beam III
- Gravity Well III

* Maybe Graviton Pulse Generator

A note on build theory: I chose the Mirror because I prefer this style of ship but the two Tac BOffs in the "prime" version is unappealing to me as I think I can get more bang-for-buck with thesecond Engineering Boff. Besides,, I had it in storage when it dropped in a LB!

I stuck with Tetyron because I like blue :P. Really because I saw a perceptible difference (not amazing) but one that mattered to me. From my point of view, I'm banking on other teammates to be packing Disruptors, so if I can contribute a shield stripper proc, then it may help out with the BOff abilities use. I went with Phased because of the extra proc.

On consoles, I looked at the Science abilities being used and picked the Sci onsoles that boosted those abilities. Yet, the Enhaced Plasma Manifold is a neat choice to me as it not only repairs but provides a boost to Aux! I dunno, it's still fluid.

*As for the Booster Module, I'm considering switchng out for a Graviton Pulse Generator 1) because I have it :P, 2) it's another attack that affects movement - moot for cubes but what about Spheres?

So, how about them apples? :)

ursusmorologus 04-30-2013 03:34 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cmdrscarlet (Post 9550551)
Fore Weapons (Aft Weapons same)
- Phased Tetryon Double Beam Bank x2

Aft Weapons
- Phased Tetryon Turret x3

I read your build disclaimer and I understand what you're saying, but Tetryon proc is still useless.

Quote:

Deflector/Impulse/Shields - Aegis
The Jem'Hadar set is a better set for a control sci. It gives boost to graviton, weapon power, and ship handling. It also works well with polarons and the 3-piece set bonus gives the "anti-proton sweep" shield-stripper feature. That is the combo I am using on my Mirror DSSV

Quote:

Science Consoles
- Field Generator
- Flow Capacitors
- Enhanced Plasma Manifold
- Particle Generator
You should do the omega grinding for 2-3 days and get the borg console, it will replace the graviton generator and add more weapon power and a couple of other benes.

Quote:

Lieutenant Engineering station
- Em. Power to SIields I
- Direct Energy Modulation I
DEM is not very helpful with beams, and the turrets aren't doing enough damage for the small amount of pass-through to be helpful. Emergency Power to Weapons II would probably give more damage, but possible changes to EPtX on Tribble make it a wait-and-see. Emergency Power to AUX II would be good too, and you dont need it on full rotation with a sci--just charge up the AUX before you do a grav well. Engineering Team II or Aux-to-SIF I would give some hull repairs.

Quote:

A note on build theory: I chose the Mirror because I prefer this style of ship but the two Tac BOffs in the "prime" version is unappealing to me as I think I can get more bang-for-buck with thesecond Engineering Boff.
I agree with you, I would rather have EPtS in rotation than TT in rotation, although that might change.

cmdrscarlet 05-01-2013 08:06 AM

Thank you for the continued feedback :)

Quote:

Originally Posted by ursusmorologus (Post 9555971)
I read your build disclaimer and I understand what you're saying, but Tetryon proc is still useless.

How? From my understanding (so i'm asking for clarity) the proc chance is the same across all regular space weapons so what makes Tetryon so "bad"? Or what makes another choice better?

Quote:

The Jem'Hadar set is a better set for a control sci. It gives boost to graviton, weapon power, and ship handling. It also works well with polarons and the 3-piece set bonus gives the "anti-proton sweep" shield-stripper feature. That is the combo I am using on my Mirror DSSV
I checked Wiki on this and the JH set will be an upgrade once I get to that mission series :)

Quote:

You should do the omega grinding for 2-3 days and get the borg console, it will replace the graviton generator and add more weapon power and a couple of other benes.
I'm absolutely sure what's in the Reputation store is hands-down better. But all of it is out of reach in the short term. Unfortunately for me, I simply can't play the game enough to grind anything. So "2-3 days" is about 2-3 months if not longer for me :( So I'm looking for a build that will work in the short term. Trust me, I salivate looking at the items from the Rep store!

Quote:

DEM is not very helpful with beams, and the turrets aren't doing enough damage for the small amount of pass-through to be helpful.
Argh!

Quote:

Emergency Power to Weapons II would probably give more damage, but possible changes to EPtX on Tribble make it a wait-and-see. Emergency Power to AUX II would be good too, and you dont need it on full rotation with a sci--just charge up the AUX before you do a grav well. Engineering Team II or Aux-to-SIF I would give some hull repairs.
I don't plan to tank - heck, I'd rather avoid the possibility. But I'm getting the impression I ... should?

Thank you all for the feedback! :)

snoggymack22 05-01-2013 09:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jadensecura (Post 9259601)
, and Tachyon Beam also barely does anything,

If the OP is setting this up to PUG the STFs, elite or normal, then absolutely Tachyon Beam has a very limited use.

If the OP is setting this up to PUG the crystaline entity I say keep it. The devs changed the entity and how some powers affect it and tachyon beam has a use in that encounter. So if the OP is doing fleet actions with enemies that actually have shields instead of tons o' generators and static objects, and then mixing in that crystaline sonuvagun, then keep it. (And bring the gravity wells). As that will be a huge boost to fighting off the entity.

But if the OP is setting this up to fight off the same old borg generators we've all been fighting off for what seems like forever, yeah, tachyon beam should stay home.


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