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-   -   So, let's talk about Cloaking Devices... (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=629921)

tobar26th 04-20-2013 04:27 AM

So, let's talk about Cloaking Devices...
 
I know this has come up hundreds of times in the general feedback forums, but I figure with a new expansion, and a whole new faction using them it's worth bringing up fresh.


Some time ago, well over the one year period, and possibly even two years now, Klingons could cloak, they could hail their enemies, throw taunts at them, pick up loot, and all was well with the world. Cloaks made sense.


Sometime after that a patch was born, and with this patch the cloaks were adjusted, now when your bridge officer speaks to you, you accidentally decloak. Your transporters can now no longer beam through your cloak to pick up those provisions you looted. Enemies no longer need scan for you, they simply wait for you to speak.

Now there's been a lot of forum rage of this - I know I've closed, merged, modded more threads than I can recall on the topic. The answer has always been that it's working as intended, and is not actually a bug.

That's fine.


So let's talk about intentions. If we assume that it's intended to work how it is, we must now ask 'why', and 'should this be how it is meant to work'?

I can't see a logical reason that we should decloak for every interaction in game. I honestly don't believe the Dev's answer that it's intended and not a bug, therefore I'm going to throw it out there - this is Star Trek's first full blown expansion, it's biggest, most unprecedented update - fix this situation. Put some serious Dev hours into it, we were once told it would take manually updating every map in the game - I say let's do it, but back the launch a day or two if needs be, but let's sort this travesty out.


And if it's working as intended? Let's change the intention - the Cloaking Device is meant to be a weapon for subterfuge, something to allow the KDF and the RR to sneak around, creep up on their enemies, and generally go all cloak and dagger. It should not be required to have players drop their cloak to do simple things like chat with their bridge officers or pick up a weapons battery. Particularly when you're building a new faction who's play style relies heavily on cloaking.


So - let's hear it, would you rather wait a touch longer to have this sorted out?

daan2006 04-20-2013 04:32 AM

this all the way ^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

mn03 04-20-2013 10:52 AM

I also hope they will change this. I'm cloaking less now because it's annoying when it's cancelled because of a dialogue window (and having to wait 20 seconds to recloak).

tobar26th 04-20-2013 10:53 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mn03 (Post 9343781)
I also hope they will change this. I'm cloaking less now because it's annoying when it's cancelled because of a dialogue window (and having to wait 20 seconds to recloak).

See that's much my thought, it's not that I hate the issue, but the cooldown coming in after being interrupted is a swine. If I decloak when hailed I could live with it, if I had a clear cooldown afterwards.

darkfader1988 04-20-2013 11:01 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tobar26th (Post 9337631)
I know this has come up hundreds of times in the general feedback forums, but I figure with a new expansion, and a whole new faction using them it's worth bringing up fresh.


Some time ago, well over the one year period, and possibly even two years now, Klingons could cloak, they could hail their enemies, throw taunts at them, pick up loot, and all was well with the world. Cloaks made sense.


Sometime after that a patch was born, and with this patch the cloaks were adjusted, now when your bridge officer speaks to you, you accidentally decloak. Your transporters can now no longer beam through your cloak to pick up those provisions you looted. Enemies no longer need scan for you, they simply wait for you to speak.

Now there's been a lot of forum rage of this - I know I've closed, merged, modded more threads than I can recall on the topic. The answer has always been that it's working as intended, and is not actually a bug.

That's fine.


So let's talk about intentions. If we assume that it's intended to work how it is, we must now ask 'why', and 'should this be how it is meant to work'?

I can't see a logical reason that we should decloak for every interaction in game. I honestly don't believe the Dev's answer that it's intended and not a bug, therefore I'm going to throw it out there - this is Star Trek's first full blown expansion, it's biggest, most unprecedented update - fix this situation. Put some serious Dev hours into it, we were once told it would take manually updating every map in the game - I say let's do it, but back the launch a day or two if needs be, but let's sort this travesty out.


And if it's working as intended? Let's change the intention - the Cloaking Device is meant to be a weapon for subterfuge, something to allow the KDF and the RR to sneak around, creep up on their enemies, and generally go all cloak and dagger. It should not be required to have players drop their cloak to do simple things like chat with their bridge officers or pick up a weapons battery. Particularly when you're building a new faction who's play style relies heavily on cloaking.


So - let's hear it, would you rather wait a touch longer to have this sorted out?

The thing is, people dont like popups. This game does way too much popups etc. Even worse, standard the option is to fully stop ones ship as soon as a pop up comes up (Good thing you can disable at least THAT part)

So first popups and things being thrown in your face is annoying as hell, now unintended decloak is even worse, and is even more annoying.


For Kerrat, alot of PvPers go there, you wanna hang out in kerrat, some people do that mission with the borg cubes and stuff and at some point your getting a window or a small notification and whoop, uncloaked.

Its at least as annoying as the forced respawn in kerrat, which should imo also be fixed.
Kerrat should get a total revamp.

Ship maneuvring should come first, u wanna keep flying to wherever you want to, without any boundries, or anything that can come in your way. That kinda stuff should always get 2nd priority, and we want smaller notifactions somewhere in the screen which doesnt bother us so much :D

squishkin 04-20-2013 11:04 AM

I honestly don't know.

I don't really have a huge issue with requiring the dropping of the cloak to pick up items/use the transporter. Obviously you can't have the cloak and use shields or weapons (under most conditions).

Communications is the most tricky situation. Obviously you shouldn't decloak to talk to your bridge officers, but should you decloak to communicate outside? I don't know.

It doesn't make sense to me, for example, that you can remain undetectable and hail someone to taunt them. That doesn't make sense to me. It might be different if you're hailing, say, fleet command, but just general hailing is problematic.

In that respect, I think the issue is not so much with the idea of what exactly triggers a decloak, but that the entire cloaking/detection mechanic seems like it needs to use a lot of work.

What I would say, though, is two things should ultimately be changed:

1. Certain things should decrease your stealth rating, but not actually require decloaking. An increase in speed, hailing a contact, etc, should all damage your stealth.

2. Certain things should not be possible until you decloak. That is to say, they should not turn off your cloak if you do them, but you can't do them until you turn off your cloak- much like how firing weapons under cloak works now. Firing weapons, using transporters, etc.

Only certain things should forcibly trigger a decloak: certain types of special weapons (like say an antiproton sweep) and 'scripted circumstances'. Just deciding to answer a hail should never forcibly decloak you. At the worst, it just shouldn't happen unless you decloak.

I feel like the stealth mechanic is right now a significant hodgepodge.

dunnlang 04-20-2013 11:14 AM

There are two options. It's either a bug, or poor game design. Any other explanation is inaccurate.

It's claimed that the current "fix" results in intentional decloaking, but more often than not, the decloakings still make no story sense. Even less sense for Romulans who are always shown to spend great deals of time cloaked, gathering lots of scan data and observations. That appears to be impossible in STO.

It's not just cloak that suffers. Others are finding that cooldowns like the Singularity reset with cut scenes and at other odd times.

p2wsucks 04-20-2013 11:31 AM

Tbh, it used to work for a brief period, but got broken. The only way for them to fix it would to adjust every map iirc. They decided it wasn't worth the labor and called it working as intended. I don't see it getting fixed.

crusty8mac 04-20-2013 11:32 AM

nvm...........

alikain 04-20-2013 12:11 PM

Yes please they should fix it. I never understood why I should decloak, whiles am talking to my bridge officers or scanning things in space. Ramulans are masters when it come to cloaks even the Klingon cloak are not as good as the Ramulans once.


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