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-   -   Mindgame - No. Just... No. (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=680091)

jymoward 05-16-2013 01:11 AM

Mindgame - No. Just... No.
 
This is my first major issue with LoR.

There are no real player choices in Mindgame - except to proceed or not.

I stopped in the middle. I won't play this one. There are some things I won't do even in a game where I'm shooting everything in sight.

You have to make this in some way resistible - offer an alternative action, even if hidden.

If this does not change when it comes to Holodeck, I'll be skipping this mission every time.

No reward is worth compromising integrity, even in a game.

reximuz 05-16-2013 01:16 AM

The point of the mission, you are missing it.

If you stop in the middle you are missing even more about the story that is being told there.

captainrevo1 05-16-2013 01:20 AM

up to you. no one is going to change the entire structure of a mission because it bothers you. i think you are taking things way too seriously for a computer game.

you are meant to be forced as that is the story. you can delay it but just like la forge was indoctrinated, you are too. there is not choice.

and life is not fair. good people have been forced to do bad things in tv and film, not just sci-fi.

nadiezja 05-16-2013 01:55 AM

That is the point of the mission.

Hence me thinking it ought to have a trigger warning - it's a profoundly disturbing mission. It's brilliant, but profoundly disturbing, and could cause significant trouble to people whose trauma it brushes against.

jymoward 05-16-2013 02:10 AM

Ah, but I'm not on TV - I'm a living person. And yes, it's a game.

You're basically saying it's Kobiashi Maru, and like Kirk, I don't believe in the no-win scenario.

I get to make choices. I don't watch Dexter or Saw or the Human Centipede.

Star Trek is about finding a way out of bad situations - turning certain death into a fighting chance to live.

This Mindgames thing is not, and if that's how they move the story I'll not participate.

My choice. Other people may not care.

So I'll just be skipping along.

eisenw0lf 05-16-2013 02:15 AM

You destroy countless starships in this game. Their crews get burned alive, ripped to pieces by explosions or blown into space where they horrifically suffocate and freeze at the same time ... but a mission in which the cruelest thing your BRAINWASHED character has to do is to kill three epoohs is to much for you to handle?

captainrevo1 05-16-2013 02:20 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jymoward (Post 9966781)
Ah, but I'm not on TV - I'm a living person. And yes, it's a game.

You're basically saying it's Kobiashi Maru, and like Kirk, I don't believe in the no-win scenario.

I get to make choices. I don't watch Dexter or Saw or the Human Centipede.

Star Trek is about finding a way out of bad situations - turning certain death into a fighting chance to live.

This Mindgames thing is not, and if that's how they move the story I'll not participate.

My choice. Other people may not care.

So I'll just be skipping along.

I respect its your choice and you can do what you wish, its not going to affect anyone else but your arguments are not making a whole heap of sense to me.

1) you point out its not TV, and you are a real person. then follow it up with point out its a game. its fiction. no one is asking you to do anything. they are asking your fictional characters to do something that is part of a specific story, that is well within the realms of science fiction and has even been shown on trek on a number of occasions where characters lose control despite their best efforts.

2) you do get out of it and certain parts of it are not even real. the fact you stopped half way through means you dont even know how it ends.

again if you dont want to do it, then fine but im finding your reasons perplexing.

wufangchu 05-16-2013 02:28 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by eisenw0lf (Post 9966821)
You destroy countless starships in this game. Their crews get burned alive, ripped to pieces by explosions or blown into space where they horrifically suffocate and freeze at the same time ... but a mission in which the cruelest thing your BRAINWASHED character has to do is to kill three epoohs is to much for you to handle?

yeahh, but then its easier for me to kill humans than animals anyway.. Yes, I AM a vietnam vet.. I AM a monster according to a great many people still and not much different than Hakeev ( and i never fired a single shot against another human being ).. Yes, I DID trigger on this mission, badly.. Those military ships? the pirates? all of em? i'll kill them a million times over. they knew the risks and they took their chances, It's they're turn to die.. The epoohs or whatever they are did not know the risks, they did not volunteer, and they do not deserve to die while defenseless and helpless..
This episode caused me to remember. I dont want to remember. That was fourty years ago and i dont want those memories any more. they arent fun, they arent part of a game and they are as offensive as it can possibly get. Just like this mission.

virusdancer 05-16-2013 02:29 AM

Um, I'm kind of at a loss here.

There are some things you won't do even while shooting everything in sight.

Have you considered how many crew die on each ship you blow up? That some ships have family, passengers, and other civilians? That the crew may have spouses elsewhere, siblings, children, parents, grandparents, cousins, friends and other loved ones? What about the crew you lose while fighting? What about the crew when your ship is blown up?

All the folks that you've disintegrated on the ground - do they also not have friends and family?

So the taking of and ruining of countless lives...thousands upon thousands upon thousands upon thousands...is a-okay in your book...

...but the three things in Mind Game require a protest?

Spoiler...

Being forced to shoot a friend/crewmember.

Killing the Epohh with the thalaron weapon.

Installing Borg implants on the prisoner.


.../Spoiler.

As for having a choice - uh - where else do you have a choice? In the majority of MMOs, there is no choice outside of Do It or Don't Do It.

There are few, very few, things where you can actually make a choice about how you're going to proceed. This is Star Trek Online: Guns Blazing...that's never been hidden. It makes JJTrek look like a thinking man's movie by comparison. We lock 'n load and kill stuff.

Space: the final frontier. These are the voyages of some random starship. Its ongoing mission: to explore strange old worlds, to seek out old life and old civilizations, to boldly destroy them like no one has before.

/cough

captainrevo1 05-16-2013 02:37 AM

Ok, fair enough, you have a history that no one should have to have gone through.

i'm not sure that's the game fault, I dont think it can tailor itself to every person individual situation, but fine I at least understand your reasoning now. I'll leave it at that.


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