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-   -   Engineer in a PVP escort (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=685781)

dam999 05-19-2013 10:33 AM

Engineer in a PVP escort
 
Cryptic should seriously reconsider to make eng class more competitive in PVP.

The only way a tac captain can lose against an eng is if he is a ******. Otherwise, there is no chance that an eng cap has any chance of dealing the same amount of DPS as a tac one. With alpha + omega the numbers go ridiculously high plus all the other tac skills..Engineer class must have something to respond to both tac and sci cap skils. Most eng skills are completely and utterly useless. I've talked to many people and even though tac captains usually like the way it is, they still all agree that the eng class is almost unplayable if you are not into RPG star trek.

The game is not balanced and the only thing that counts is DPS in which the eng class is rather poor..Even sci class has better and more useful skills than engies..

The way I see it, Cryptic should either completely ignore the entire eng concept and concentrate all on science and tactical or do something already to improve the gaming experience with the eng character so that it becomes more than a punching bag.

virusdancer 05-19-2013 10:52 AM

Hrmmm...

Quote:

Originally Posted by dam999 (Post 10046031)
The only way a tac captain can lose against an eng is if he is a ******. Otherwise, there is no chance that an eng cap has any chance of dealing the same amount of DPS as a tac one. With alpha + omega the numbers go ridiculously high plus all the other tac skills.

...I'm going to have to disagree with that.

If you were talking about what a Tac or an Eng brings to a team, no doubt the Eng lacks team synergy for PvP. Heck, the PvE synergy the Eng has is missing from the PvE in the game.

But it looks like you're talking about a duel scenario, in which case I'm going to have to say it's simply the better pilot wins.

dam999 05-19-2013 11:14 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by virusdancer (Post 10046221)
Hrmmm...



...I'm going to have to disagree with that.

If you were talking about what a Tac or an Eng brings to a team, no doubt the Eng lacks team synergy for PvP. Heck, the PvE synergy the Eng has is missing from the PvE in the game.

But it looks like you're talking about a duel scenario, in which case I'm going to have to say it's simply the better pilot wins.

Eng lacks everything..Whatever eng has, tac and sci have also, but NOT vice versa.

What can an eng pilot do to maximize his damage? APOIII and perhaps TT (which is insignificant), that's about it..

Tac captains have all those BOFF skills plus all their character specific skills which boost their damage sky high. In other words, if you take two ships with same consoles and weapons, the top damage of the tac captain is a LOT bigger than the one of the eng cap.

captkirrahe 05-19-2013 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dam999 (Post 10046611)
Eng lacks everything..Whatever eng has, tac and sci have also, but NOT vice versa.

What can an eng pilot do to maximize his damage? APOIII and perhaps TT (which is insignificant), that's about it..

Tac captains have all those BOFF skills plus all their character specific skills which boost their damage sky high. In other words, if you take two ships with same consoles and weapons, the top damage of the tac captain is a LOT bigger than the one of the eng cap.

So let me get this straight, you want Engineer, the self-tank class in the game, to do as much damage as Tactical, i.e the dps class in the game.

Ok so lets give engis, APA and Tactical Fleet and GDF, oh wait now they have the same damage but engis have better self tanking :o so lets get rid of Miracle worker, Rotate shield frequency and Eps power transfer, oh wait, now they are practically the same class.

What you shouldn't be asking for is the engi to do more dps, what you should be asking is for cryptic to improve/add engineers current abilities to perform its role in a team, i.e tanking/support.

virusdancer 05-19-2013 11:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dam999 (Post 10046611)
Eng lacks everything..Whatever eng has, tac and sci have also, but NOT vice versa.

What can an eng pilot do to maximize his damage? APOIII and perhaps TT (which is insignificant), that's about it..

Tac captains have all those BOFF skills plus all their character specific skills which boost their damage sky high. In other words, if you take two ships with same consoles and weapons, the top damage of the tac captain is a LOT bigger than the one of the eng cap.

The Eng and the Tac have access to the same BOFF abilities, gear, skill build, ships, etc, etc, etc.

What separates the Eng and the Tac are the 5 innate abilities from their Career selection...
...do you know the uptime on those abilities?

You're talking PvP...not PvE. NPCs might sit there in the Tac's arcs while the buffs are up. As a player, I'd think you'd try to stay out of them...eh?

dam999 05-19-2013 11:58 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by captkirrahe (Post 10046791)
So let me get this straight, you want Engineer, the self-tank class in the game, to do as much damage as Tactical, i.e the dps class in the game.

Ok so lets give engis, APA and Tactical Fleet and GDF, oh wait now they have the same damage but engis have better self tanking :o so lets get rid of Miracle worker, Rotate shield frequency and Eps power transfer, oh wait, now they are practically the same class.

What you shouldn't be asking for is the engi to do more dps, what you should be asking is for cryptic to improve/add engineers current abilities to perform its role in a team, i.e tanking/support.

Miracle worker with what CD?

Same goes for EPS and the rest..

Current CD makes them useless for any serious pvp. Plus, there are so many things you can do to heal yourself that eng char specific skills are redundant. EPtS, Eng team, TSS, HE, Elite fleet gear etc etc etc.

Whatever an engie can do, a tac or sci can do better.

That's the way it is and HAS to be changed!

dam999 05-19-2013 12:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by virusdancer (Post 10046821)
NPCs might sit there in the Tac's arcs while the buffs are up. As a player, I'd think you'd try to stay out of them...eh?

What will you do to prevent it, perpetual RSP?

You WILL get hit and with all those tac skills, it is IMPOSSIBLE to counter it, unless u are a tank, but then you can only survive and can't damage an escort in any way..

Basically, you can have a 30 min pvp against a tac escort with no winners, but that's the best u can hope for. In 1vs1 you CAN'T win, no matter the skills.

Only equipment + skills make a difference. This is not a flight sim such as Freespace 2 to use ur piloting skills to ur own advantage, it's a MMORPG made for large audience (less demanding, simple..).

virusdancer 05-19-2013 12:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dam999 (Post 10047441)
What will you do to prevent it, perpetual RSP?

Er, piloting. Already said that.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dam999 (Post 10047441)
You WILL get hit and with all those tac skills, it is IMPOSSIBLE to counter it, unless u are a tank, but then you can only survive and can't damage an escort in any way..

You do know there's a reason why the common team comp is 2 Tac and 3 Sci, right?

Quote:

Originally Posted by dam999 (Post 10047441)
Basically, you can have a 30 min pvp against a tac escort with no winners, but that's the best u can hope for. In 1vs1 you CAN'T win, no matter the skills.

If you're coming from the premise that the Tac will win...and...the Tac does not win...

...just food for thought.

Still say the better pilot will win. Doesn't mean that the a draw can't happen. Just means that the two folks were well matched enough for there not to be a winner.

Quote:

Originally Posted by dam999 (Post 10047441)
Only equipment + skills make a difference. This is not a flight sim such as Freespace 2 to use ur piloting skills to ur own advantage, it's a MMORPG made for large audience (less demanding, simple..).

So wait...lol, did you just say that the Tacs have no skills...it's just because of those five abilities that they win?

Man, I don't like Tac and I've had some tirades/rants of my own...lol, but I'd never say that. That's just trippy.

Um, yeah - piloting skills do matter. Heck, how do you think a fight between two Tacs plays out? Just lucky shots? Or...maybe the better skilled pilot?

drkfrontiers 05-19-2013 12:10 PM

I agree and disagree with alot that has been said in this thread thus far.

While I believe that engineers do fulfill a role, I also agree that that role has been largely negated by the power creep of the remaining classes.

Hmnnn ... what to do .. what to do.

Here's an idea.

Engineers build things, manage ships powers and warp engines and fix things right?

So why not make them good at that?

Why not allow ONLY the engineer class the following.

Enhanced turret deployments on the battlefield. Make these as resilient as the Ac. Assimilators, and have them pack more of a punch. Full blown Torp Spread II & III platforms, and Spinal Lance Turrets :)

Allow ONLY engineers the ability to push power levels into overdrive - give them a flat out power bonus based on their ship type. So if a science officer is in any given ship for example, they maximum power level is 125, as if tactical. Engineers have 135+. Its in line with everything about Star Trek. "I'm giving it all she's got capt'n!"

Allow engineers abilities that play an equally important role as SNB or Attack Patterns. Allow Miracle Worker to be cast on an ally which will counter SNB. That way engineers can once again be the "fix-its" on the battlefield.

Its time for engineers to shine!

virusdancer 05-19-2013 12:23 PM

Folks are aware of the changes (that if nothing changes between now and Tuesday) will be going live with LoR, right?

Change to GDF? New career-restricted traits?

edit: They don't change the team synergy issue, but there are changes taking place.


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