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-   -   dhc vrs beams (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=719021)

maicake716 05-28-2013 10:46 AM

dhc vrs beams
 
so i got told that beams do more dps then dhc in pve.

which doesnt make any sense given my time in pvp.

so which is it?

saxfire 05-28-2013 10:51 AM

Anybody knows that in PvP, Sustain Dps < Concentrated Dps, and in PvE it's the other way around.

ussultimatum 05-28-2013 10:55 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maicake716 (Post 10422621)
so i got told that beams do more dps then dhc in pve.

which doesnt make any sense given my time in pvp.

so which is it?

1) It's true to an extent.
2) It requires a fairly specific build.
3) Most of the DPS output is AoE and comes from constant FAW spam, with TAC buffs, DEM, A2B and several other methods of mitigating drain as well as RomPlas BAs with Embassy consoles, Experimental Array, etc.


So ultimately, yes, it does technically higher DPS in PvE as BFAW is hitting multiple targets nearly all of the time vs. DHCs which are limited to 45 degree arc and 3 targets max with CSV.

The build link above is legit, I've run with him and he does in fact parse as high (20k to even 26k DPS) as he says he does (as do quite a few of these specialized builds I've seen).

maicake716 05-28-2013 10:58 AM

so theres nothing that can be done to make a dhc/dc build be higher?

ursusmorologus 05-28-2013 11:03 AM

Cannons do more damage on targets in front of you, beams do more damage to targets around you. If you keep your targets in front of you, CSV and TS will do more actual damage, IE killing them faster.

ussultimatum 05-28-2013 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maicake716 (Post 10422921)
so theres nothing that can be done to make a dhc/dc build be higher?

It's semi-doable, but (its numberin' time!!!)...

1) You have to make even more of a glass cannon than his cruiser, with lower base mitigation and less survivability tools.
2) You still will be unlikely to hit 20k+ plus sustained DPS regularly.
3) You will always be limited to 3 targets, that you may or may not be able to keep in arc.
4) Suffer worse DPS drop off due to range issues. Even when tryin to fight at point blank range, you lose "DPS" while moving from targets to targets. Also point blank range is bad for hitting multiple targets with CSV.


The DHC/DC is still better at burst and has the real single target DPS output, but if you are running with 5 super-tuned ships for STF DPS running (ave: 4 to 5 mins per STF) you're going to be hard pressed even in the most maneuverable of escorts to get your DHCs on enough targets all of the time to hit the same numbers.


Most super-tuned PvE DPS escorts probably fall in the 10k to 14k DPS range, with max highs in the 18k range.

antoniosalieri 05-28-2013 11:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by maicake716 (Post 10422921)
so theres nothing that can be done to make a dhc/dc build be higher?

Ya you can go faster. Seriously... just get to the stuff that needs blowing up fast and kill in before Mr Faw racks up a ton of "DPS" off it. lol

Beams have the better pve aoe skill... its true.

The thing is WHO cares what your Damage Per Second is averaged out over a STF or a PvP match.

We are pvpers and Forcing people to respawn is sort of what we should care about.

Honestly there is a lot of people that would be well served to just delete there parsing programs, there not helping them. lol

There is only one question that you need to ask yourself in regard to a PvP build...

"How long will it take me to deliver More dmg then my target has hull"

Now if the answer to that isn't fast enough to negate peoples healing cycles... then you have problems.. The kind of problems that COULD possibly lead you to the terrible Parser philosophy that may well see you racking up 1mil+ dmg on a score board... and still loosing matches. lol

{on the note of cycles... if people would watch buffs on targets a little more they would become much more effective. I still see people that consider themselves to be good pvpers who are obviously not paying to much attention to who they are shooting at.}

At this point if you are flying a non support ship... and honestly even if you are. There is no real excuse to not have a build that can have a stradagy to burst someone down. Now not every build will be able to do that every 30s... but really even a healing build can be setup to be able to deliver that "alpha shock" every 3min or so.

ussultimatum 05-28-2013 11:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by antoniosalieri (Post 10423631)
Ya you can go faster. Seriously... just get to the stuff that needs blowing up fast and kill in before Mr Faw racks up a ton of "DPS" off it. lol

Beams have the better pve aoe skill... its true.

The thing is WHO cares what your Damage Per Second is averaged out over a STF or a PvP match.

I agree with most of what you said, especially for PvP.


However:

Seriously... just get to the stuff that needs blowing up fast and kill in before Mr Faw racks up a ton of "DPS" off it.

This doesn't really work in STFs with the raw hull of most targets, with BFAW running constantly. The more FAW boats there are running this the harder it actually becomes for the DHC set up.


The thing is WHO cares what your Damage Per Second is averaged out over a STF...

People who want to complete stuff faster? :P

Seriously, I wouldn't build this myself but there is something to be said for completing 3 Elite STFs in 15 minutes so I can go grind my face on all of the other stuff I need to grind.

antoniosalieri 05-28-2013 11:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ussultimatum (Post 10423891)
People who want to complete stuff faster? :P

Well I don't have any issues there with my cannon boats... well some of my ships have a beam for an overload... still mostly cannons. I'm pretty sure where both in DPS-11,000. :)

Honestly the only PvE beam cruisers I have seen rack up more dps then my hardcore dps builds are ones with ALL the pve gear.

Full Plasma builds... with ROM no power beam. In cruisers that can slot 3-4 embassy consoles. They also almost always have the one rom torp so they can load the console for another +9% plasma dmg.

I don't think anyone running none PVE plasma beams will out dmg the top cannon build flyers.

I think my infected record is around 18k. I have heard of people topping 20k in a beam cruiser... but I have yet to be in the same instance as any of them. ;)

ddesjardins 05-28-2013 11:40 AM

What this boils down to is the pilots skill.

Any starship build is only as good as her captain. Keeping the ship at the 'right' position, pointed in the 'right direction', and using the 'right powers at the right time' all play a role in damage.

Beam arrays in PVE are optimal for most uses.

The general view is the smaller the field of view, the higher the damage potential. Higher damage requires better piloting.

And don't get me started on the proper use of powers & abilities.

Fire all sounds great, but the reality is drop shields first. then fire torpedoes. Most players waste the potential of their torpedoes by firing them at the wrong time. Getting that timing right can more than DOUBLE the average DPS.

Now imagine the potential when you're aligned correctly, using powers in correct order and delivering your weapons payload in a specific sequence. This is the difference between a 3K attack, and a 18K attack using the same ship build.

My Two Bits

Admiral Thrax


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