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-   -   Question about Quad Plasmas (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=858071)

royalsovereign 09-19-2013 03:22 PM

Question about Quad Plasmas
 
OK, I've never played around with quads much. I don't generally spend much real money on Zen, and don't grind ceaselessly or dil (and can't seem to wrap my head around exchanging it for zen anyways). Never got around to buying a Sao Paolo or the BoP with quads. So I am just now paying some attention to them, and have a question about the quad plasma cannons.

The 'in-the-know' players seem to dismiss the quad plasmas, mainly because of the engine power drain compounding with the lower Warbird power levels. So do the quads pull *both* weapon power and engine power when firing? Do they benefit from weapon power levels at all? Or do they function best with the engine power turned up to 11?

This is probably a crazy idea but would it be feasible to do a torp + quads build and run with weapon power flatlined, putting max power to engines? Obviously wouldn't want to use the Focused Singularity Beam with that since I assume the minimal weapon power would make that weapon ineffective.

OK, donning asbestos undies, feel free to tell me what a stupid idea this is. ;)

telbasta7386 09-19-2013 04:37 PM

I like them well enough. If you use a singularity core that has the bonus engine power, it negates the drain from the quads - otherwise, the weapon drain from them is no different than any other heavy cannon.

I run with the quads and dual heavy cannons forward, along with two forward plasma torpedo launchers set to autofire for some energy-free damage output, and two turrets on the back.

tom61sto 09-19-2013 06:23 PM

Quads drain both weapon and engine power when firing, but benefit only from weapon power for their damage. Running with weapon power at 15 would make the Quads hit like a wet noodle.

The Focused Singularity Beam shouldn't be effected by weapon power, only plasma damage consoles and energy weapon skills, while consuming your Singularity Charge.

warmaker001b 09-19-2013 06:52 PM

All Quad Cannons are also slapped with the worst of any possible weapon mods, [dmg]. Not only that, they get x4 of them. Accuracy, CritD%, CritH% are all infinitely superior to Dmg mods. Anything but damage mods, for PVE or PVP.

Combine that with the drains to both Weapon & Engine Subsystem Power

If you have the luxury of easily presenting narrow arc weapons and wish to use cannons, DHCs are the best and infinitely superior to Quad Cannons.

farmallm 09-19-2013 07:24 PM

I run the quads, plus a beam array, double beam, and torpedo. I never had issues on power issues with battery or engine. Even at firing overcharge plus rapid fire on the quads at once.

iconians 09-19-2013 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by warmaker001b (Post 12478471)
All Quad Cannons are also slapped with the worst of any possible weapon mods, [dmg]. Not only that, they get x4 of them. Accuracy, CritD%, CritH% are all infinitely superior to Dmg mods. Anything but damage mods, for PVE or PVP.

Combine that with the drains to both Weapon & Engine Subsystem Power

If you have the luxury of easily presenting narrow arc weapons and wish to use cannons, DHCs are the best and infinitely superior to Quad Cannons.

What he said. It's not so much the power drain from engines, it's the fact they have [Dmg]x4, which is arguably the worst modifier in the game. Mind you, it isn't necessarily a bad modifier -- but compared to [Acc] which is there to actually hit a target (you deal 0 damage to a target you miss, and is subsequently useful for hitting small ships and destructable projectiles, and if the defense is overcome completely by accuracy (such as a stationary target), the accuracy spills over into critical severity), [CrtH] which increases the amount of crits you have, or [CrtD] which affects just how much punch your critical hits end up dealing, [Dmg] is kind of weak.

I do use weapons with [Dmg] modifiers, but I also don't pvp, and they all have [Acc] on them somewhere, and generally more than just one modifier.

Furthermore, weapons that level up with you only go up to Mk X quality. So your Quad Plasma cannons (and Phaser quad cannons and Disruptor quad cannons) are actually only Mk X when you're at Vice Admiral level. If you want proof, grab one of those Blue retrofit phaser beam arrays that level up with you, and then buy from the exchange a Blue Mk X phaser beam array with the same modifiers (if it has any, I don't remember). Equip both to your ship (to take into account the actual stats given your character's specific traits and skills), and you will see them perfectly identical.

This is slightly deceptive with the Quad Cannons because without the [Dmg]x4 modifier, you wouldn't even know they were at Mk X quality, because the [Dmg] bonus would put them on par with similar Mk XII cannons at Vice Admiral level, which is likely intentional.

This gives Cryptic the opportunity to sell cannons for money (or rather zen) which are on par with weapon received in-game, without actually being better than other weapons received in-game (which are in actuality much better), and thus would not be pay-to-win... since as previously established, the Quad Cannons are novelty items. They aren't all that great. [Miss]x4, drains engine power, and has the illusion of being higher level than it actually is.

If someone wants to prove me wrong, please show me the maths and I will humbly accept that I am wrong. Personal conjecture does not count.

warmaker001b 09-19-2013 09:58 PM

Also, since this weapon naturally comes on an Escort, the Engine power drain means less speed for the ship. Less speed means less bonus defense, which is one of the biggest assets in this game right now. Escorts receive bonus defense from speed, and the Quad Cannons bleed some of that away for a weapon with the worst modifiers in the game at x4.

Try it. See how your ship handles with the Quads. Fly around at different throttle levels, different ENG power levels. Now remove the Quads and fight with regular Cannons / DCs / DHCs. You will notice a difference in handling when you start firing. You move a bit faster, turn a bit better. Look up your bonus defense. All other weapons, beams, non-quad cannons, torps, will not bleed your speed down as you fight due to ENG power drains.

royalsovereign 09-19-2013 10:26 PM

Sorry, I should've remembered to mention that PvP does not enter my equation. Ever. If I want to have someone tell me how badly I suck, I can get that elsewhere. ;)

I've been using the quads for a few days, and I rather enjoy them. I was just trying to get a better grip on how the actual mechanics of the engine power drain works. I'm also around level 42 on this character, and I don't go out and buy all purple weapons - I just equip what drops for the most part. So the quads, while not optimal, are still better than the green MkVIII DHCs I would probably be running in their place. ;)

As for speed, I'm slowly getting away from always setting things on Full Defense, but I'm nowhere near firewalling the throttle - I'd probably never hit anything if I did that. :p

dknight0001 09-20-2013 12:09 AM

Green Mk XI [Acc] Plasma DHC's are around 7000 EC and far better.

warmaker001b 09-20-2013 12:30 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by royalsovereign (Post 12480311)
Sorry, I should've remembered to mention that PvP does not enter my equation. Ever. If I want to have someone tell me how badly I suck, I can get that elsewhere. ;)

I've been using the quads for a few days, and I rather enjoy them. I was just trying to get a better grip on how the actual mechanics of the engine power drain works. I'm also around level 42 on this character, and I don't go out and buy all purple weapons - I just equip what drops for the most part. So the quads, while not optimal, are still better than the green MkVIII DHCs I would probably be running in their place. ;)

As for speed, I'm slowly getting away from always setting things on Full Defense, but I'm nowhere near firewalling the throttle - I'd probably never hit anything if I did that. :p

This isn't a PVE vs PVP issue with these weapons. Defense is defense. Hitting power is hitting power. Accuracy is accuracy. Subsystem power is subsystem power.

This has everything to do with how bad ALL Quad Cannons suck compared to practically any other weapon out there.

You can be using much, much better DHCs, or doing the good 'ol Dual Beam Banks + Beam Overload, or anything else, and not slam your Subsystem Power, speed, maneuverability, and your defenses all at the same time from a weapon that is less accurate, hits less crits, and even if it does crit, the damage from said crits are smaller.

You are better off with Common quality Mk XI DHCs.


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