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-   -   4 Days PvPing with Klingon... (http://sto-forum.perfectworld.com/showthread.php?t=99819)

Archived Post 02-02-2010 11:06 PM

4 Days PvPing with Klingon...
 
PvP is currently heavily slanted towards Klingon for simple fact of cloaking. This power is so easily abused, that even 'counters' such as sensor scan and tractor beam are only soft counters.

In well over a hundred pvp games, I've never been caught in stealth approaching the enemy. Not ever. It's so simple to avoid detection that you have to be trying to be seen. I see fed players drop mines and just laugh because that is simply a waste of a weapon slot for pvp. No cloaked player ever flys into mines unintentionally.

The fedball tactic is a simple byproduct of cloaking. Ask yourself, what do you do when you can't find the opponent? You group up. Safety in numbers and you don't know how many enemies are out there or where they could be. You don't even have the capability to find them. You simply have to wait for them to come to you, and they will.

When I attack with the pug it's always the same. Rarely do any of us ever team, we all know the drill. Target the weakest looking ship while the first person tanks. Usually I open because I'm a cruiser. Feds have almost no chance unless they instantly disable this player (me). If they don't, reverse shield polarity will give even the worst teamates enough time to focus down at least 1 target, at which point all moral is broken for the federation as any enemy that might get low simply blows a speed battery and evasions away to safety (if they don't have battlecloak). Even heavy focus fire it's difficult to take down a smart Klingon player.

Anyway, simple tactic. Usually the fed team wipes 5-1 or 5-0 and once they're spread out it's gg. Most of the time a couple have flown back during the fight and die to add up the tally not realize the battle is over. At this point very few battles continue as everyone just wants the game to be over so the federation proceeds to feed. They'd rather not have to deal with the cloaked attack again, they'd rather just take the loss.

Anyway I'm guessing my win rate at least for the 5v5 batles is around 80-90%, with the few losses being from games that were already over before joining.

I think that the cloaking playing field needs to be leveled. There are a number of methods including adding temporary vision locations/items on maps. They could fix Mask Energy Signature so that at least a couple weaker ships can stay hidden from the initial onslaught. They could also increase the sensor vision of all players. Honestly, all cloaked ships should instantly be detected around 5km in my opinion. Make it at least take some skill to use cloak.

Archived Post 02-02-2010 11:10 PM

And coincidentally, in closed beta when both sides were of the same skill level - tier 1 was about 50/50, tier 2 was almost all fed and tier 3 was a tossup.

Archived Post 02-02-2010 11:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustTray (Post 1888457)
PvP is currently heavily slanted towards Klingon for simple fact of cloaking. This power is so easily abused, that even 'counters' such as sensor scan and tractor beam are only soft counters.

In well over a hundred pvp games, I've never been caught in stealth approaching the enemy. Not ever. It's so simple to avoid detection that you have to be trying to be seen. I see fed players drop mines and just laugh because that is simply a waste of a weapon slot for pvp. No cloaked player ever flys into mines unintentionally.

The fedball tactic is a simple byproduct of cloaking. Ask yourself, what do you do when you can't find the opponent? You group up. Safety in numbers and you don't know how many enemies are out there or where they could be. You don't even have the capability to find them. You simply have to wait for them to come to you, and they will.

When I attack with the pug it's always the same. Rarely do any of us ever team, we all know the drill. Target the weakest looking ship while the first person tanks. Usually I open because I'm a cruiser. Feds have almost no chance unless they instantly disable this player (me). If they don't, reverse shield polarity will give even the worst teamates enough time to focus down at least 1 target, at which point all moral is broken for the federation as any enemy that might get low simply blows a speed battery and evasions away to safety (if they don't have battlecloak). Even heavy focus fire it's difficult to take down a smart Klingon player.

Anyway, simple tactic. Usually the fed team wipes 5-1 or 5-0 and once they're spread out it's gg. Most of the time a couple have flown back during the fight and die to add up the tally not realize the battle is over. At this point very few battles continue as everyone just wants the game to be over so the federation proceeds to feed. They'd rather not have to deal with the cloaked attack again, they'd rather just take the loss.

Anyway I'm guessing my win rate at least for the 5v5 batles is around 80-90%, with the few losses being from games that were already over before joining.

I think that the cloaking playing field needs to be leveled. There are a number of methods including adding temporary vision locations/items on maps. They could fix Mask Energy Signature so that at least a couple weaker ships can stay hidden from the initial onslaught. They could also increase the sensor vision of all players. Honestly, all cloaked ships should instantly be detected around 5km in my opinion. Make it at least take some skill to use cloak.

Reading this it's obvious you never made it out of T1.

Archived Post 02-02-2010 11:24 PM

Please reassess your opinion once you're out of T1.

Archived Post 02-02-2010 11:34 PM

I can never understand why people who claim to be Klingon want them to be nerfed and if space PvP is so unbalanced why dont feds bycott it and just play ground.

Archived Post 02-02-2010 11:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Azrael102 (Post 1888690)
I can never understand why people who claim to be Klingon want them to be nerfed and if space PvP is so unbalanced why dont feds bycott it and just play ground.

We (speaking on behalf of the kdf, naturally) don't really care about t1. I mean, we don't want to be inconvenienced or have anything stupid happen.
What we are really afraid of however is a kneejerk reaction on cryptic's part like they did in closed beta when they changed the damage roloff range on ALL CANNONS because of feds crying about tier 1 pvp.

That was seriously a faceroll move by the devs - to nerf an entire class of weapons because the 'pve' dudes couldn't be bothered to put in half the effort in pvp that the pvp guys were. Totally unrelated nerf. Out of the blue.

That's why we administer the periodic smackdown to mouthy new folk. They are dangerous in numbers because lazy developers come in and count topics and come away with a note written down in ballpoint pen on the back of their hand "players complaining about kdf again. nerf?"

A swift kick in the mouth works wonders to make people realize they are shoddy newbs, and need to get back to the game and take a break from the forums a bit. People get so worked up and excited about their little topics, no matter how little merit it might have.

Archived Post 02-02-2010 11:54 PM

They had this problem in WoW, once death knights were released and they had all blue gear. The whinage was terrible.

At 80 though, it's near enough balanced. But anyway, cloak is here to stay, feds should learn to play.

Archived Post 02-02-2010 11:58 PM

So all you guys have is "get out of tier 1?"

I was admiral in open beta. I'm already level 25. What the heck level are YOU? Can anyone in this forum say they're a higher level than me? I'd love to see it.

Edit - Sorry, 26.

Archived Post 02-03-2010 12:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustTray (Post 1888922)
So all you guys have is "get out of tier 1?"

I was admiral in open beta. I'm already level 25. What the heck level are YOU? Can anyone in this forum say they're a higher level than me? I'd love to see it.

Edit - Sorry, 26.

So you made it to admiral once in open beta...and you still can't figure out how to PvP in this game?

;):rolleyes:

Your level really doesn't mean anything if you don't have the first clue about PvPing...

Incidently your fed opponents were idiots to keep firing on you while RSP was up..that they couldn't be bothered to notice this and switch targets speaks to their inability to play the game...

Not to your being OP'd because you has RSP and a clue...

:cool:

Archived Post 02-03-2010 12:09 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JustTray (Post 1888457)
PvP is currently heavily slanted towards Klingon for simple fact of cloaking. This power is so easily abused, that even 'counters' such as sensor scan and tractor beam are only soft counters.

In well over a hundred pvp games, I've never been caught in stealth approaching the enemy. Not ever. It's so simple to avoid detection that you have to be trying to be seen. I see fed players drop mines and just laugh because that is simply a waste of a weapon slot for pvp. No cloaked player ever flys into mines unintentionally.

The fedball tactic is a simple byproduct of cloaking. Ask yourself, what do you do when you can't find the opponent? You group up. Safety in numbers and you don't know how many enemies are out there or where they could be. You don't even have the capability to find them. You simply have to wait for them to come to you, and they will.

When I attack with the pug it's always the same. Rarely do any of us ever team, we all know the drill. Target the weakest looking ship while the first person tanks. Usually I open because I'm a cruiser. Feds have almost no chance unless they instantly disable this player (me). If they don't, reverse shield polarity will give even the worst teamates enough time to focus down at least 1 target, at which point all moral is broken for the federation as any enemy that might get low simply blows a speed battery and evasions away to safety (if they don't have battlecloak). Even heavy focus fire it's difficult to take down a smart Klingon player.

Anyway, simple tactic. Usually the fed team wipes 5-1 or 5-0 and once they're spread out it's gg. Most of the time a couple have flown back during the fight and die to add up the tally not realize the battle is over. At this point very few battles continue as everyone just wants the game to be over so the federation proceeds to feed. They'd rather not have to deal with the cloaked attack again, they'd rather just take the loss.

Anyway I'm guessing my win rate at least for the 5v5 batles is around 80-90%, with the few losses being from games that were already over before joining.

I think that the cloaking playing field needs to be leveled. There are a number of methods including adding temporary vision locations/items on maps. They could fix Mask Energy Signature so that at least a couple weaker ships can stay hidden from the initial onslaught. They could also increase the sensor vision of all players. Honestly, all cloaked ships should instantly be detected around 5km in my opinion. Make it at least take some skill to use cloak.


1. Klingons are experienced OB CB players who play 90%+ in premades. Thus your normal fed pug looses 99% the time (cruisers x 5 in T2 is a tough one, depending if they have dedicated healer)

2. Last night our team lost 2 ships to feds as they had a player who detected us over 10km away (this needs high aux and approperiate skill).

3. When combat starts and one Fed runs away, we cant follow him as there is a wall of mines in front of us and we take heat on frontal shields (atleast 1 of us) (i have seen multiple klingons die to mines when the battle is waged in a intense mess)

4. Fedball effect will be always the same, even with Klingons if we have cloak or we dont. Piling up in a 5vs5 is a must. So your byproduct theory is utter crap.

5. Even if you find the 5 Klingons in a Stealth, what would you do? shoot at them ? ofc. and then its the same situtation 5vs5 and combat starts. (with approperiate talent and high aux, you find every klingon 100% inside 10km).

6. If 10km+ is not enuff to detect a cloak, then i just have to say it " learn the game, before you post ".

7. Rarely when i pug, if Klingons loose 5(fed) - 0(Klingon) , we suicide to fedball. So its 100% the same on our side, it has nothing to do with Stealth, but everything to do with quick exp.

8. Any possible thing in game that lets EVERY Fed or Klingon to detect stealth 100% the time inside X km is a element in game that is gamebreaking.

9. 5vs5 space DM is a quick game, IF Klingon team gets inside as full team. Usually we lack 1 or 2 players and thus will not attack until we have even teams with Federation team. ( you would do the same, dont lie ).

10. Cloak atm works just as it should, if you know how/what is needed, you can detect cloak over 10km away.

11. You didnt say what tier you play ? if its T1, your post is a joke (T1 is tutorial) , IF its T2, well Klingons in general are much more experienced then Feds so go figure the outcome. When we play against Feds, they generally die pretty fast, no one of them repairs their team mates, and they play SOLO mode in a ball. Thus meaning when we have Klingon players who heal over 50 000 in one game x 3, what you think will happen ?

12. Its all about Team work, Team play and helping your Friend who is focused. If you cant help him, you fail, your fault that your team lost, not the enemys OP Stealth or dps.

13. Feds play solo play 99% the time, thats PUG for you. ( team up and just go with the Zerg and solo play ). = recipe for fail and loosing.


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