Warbirds useless in PvP due to Penalty on Energy Levels
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Join Date: Jun 2012
05-17-2013, 10:54 PM
While i wont say they will be completely useless they are at a big disadvantage from the start. Here is my posts in the ship/singularity core thread.
"And the power drain for Singularity cores is to much in my book at -40 at lower levels is far to heavy a price with already limited power. And since the singularity cores burn any power stored when an ability is used no point in making it that big of a drain. Throw in that the gap between Fed/KDF and romulans start off at -40 power and then we add in the fact that warp cores are vastly better at power output the gap only widens.
-20 is more balanced. The singularity powers are nice but not overly useful, battle cloak is the same if used poorly itll cost you your ship. Romulan ship cores already have enough down sides to balance it out without the drain being so steep.
They take time to charge.
The powers are weak.
They provide less power.
Once used they cant be used for 1 min.
Once used they have to recharge after 1min is up.
Once used you lose any +power gained for 1min.
Must maintain battle to keep charged, hard to make use of that battle cloak and keep core up.
Id say thats enough to balance them alone."
"Indeed this is one of the pitfalls of game designing. Every time i see a cooldown power in a game over 2mins i think to myself man they really didnt want anyone to use this right? The higher the cooldown the rarer the use of that power because people know its a "Oh Sh*t" button and to save it for the last min, but since you die and respawn/revive in most games people will put off using it completely just so its still available later.
End result its NEVER used. We run into the same problem with Sing cores not cause of the cooldown but the overall penalties. We spend a ton of skill points to mitigate the power loss, *which id do on any ship any how* but even mitigated we lag way behind in power.
So we charge our cores to get +10 power. +10 power to a fed/kdf ship is nice but not critical, 10 power to a rom ship who is -40 in the red? Totally vital. So am i going to blow that power for over a min+ for a gimick weak power? Sure, if its the last thing in a fight and i wont need to do anything for a while after anyhow. But aside from that? NO WAY IN HELL.
-20 power is fair and balanced. No matter how we try to make that up the gap is still there cause anything we can do a fed/kdf can do as well. And the sing powers just dont justify -40. They are nice, they are handy, but they are over all weak. Energy overcharge for example just does CRF for cannons and turrets but does LESS dmg. Sing jump gives a grav well but its weak and i see frigate npc fly away from it. Absorption is good but doesnt last long enough vs another person to be much of a deciding factor.
-20 power, and sing cores keep charge thats built out of combat, those 2 changes would make it all even. At current -40 power is far over estimating the value of the sing powers. And it seems they balanced the -40 vs the use of all 5 powers, problem is, you can only use 1 every min. So really it should be balanced around 1 power not 5."
"I suggest you try reading my post again man. No where did i say take them out, nor did i say i wanted to fly the ship like a carbon copy. I said to balance the usefulness of the powers they had to be considered as 1, and to that effect -40 for 1 power every 2mins roughly to charge it, would you give up 40 power for 1 cstore console even if it threw in a battle cloak? I wouldnt.
Cloak while nice for an alpha is tricky to use in pvp and pve with torp and mine spam. And a single special every 2 mins needs to be a real game changer like a buffed lance that lands a crit. Lets break down the powers.
Plasma shockwave, great for killing fighters and spam. Bout it, nothing a volley of FAW/CSV cant do with ease, not something worth 40 power. Sing jump, weak easily escape able grav well, with a straight jump in your forward direction, not far enough to escape much of anything, leaves your back to your enemy more then likely, not worth 40 power.
Warpshadow, not really useful at all, -40 power? ya right, though it is spiffy looking but bout all. Now down to the best 2. Energy overcharge, now with beams its about like firing BO 0.2 not BO1 increases beam dmg a lil bit bout a tac console worth, worth 40 power? no. Using cannons its a CRF with decreased dmg not increased, totally worthless.
Last Absorption, Gives good temp shield and hull, lasts decent duration. Could be a game changer if timed right, worth 40 power? Maybe.
Keep in mind im counting these at FULL 5 charge at their maxium usefulness.
1 out of 5 is a maybe on effectiveness for the price. Battle cloak for -40 power? BC is over rated even in good hands its not easy to use. Torp and mine spam by players and npcs means you gotta go a long way before you can use it. D'd running that far? not likely, most good pvpers wont let you run, and most endgame content like borg? Ya drop that shield vs the queen, btw borg target you cloaked or not. Watch donatra decloak and fire a blast right at you while your cloaked it blows.
Im not saying remove them, or increase their power, im saying the price for them is to high. Its cost to gain simple as that. -20 power makes sing cores more balanced -40 is just to high for what you get.
I personally like the ships, even as they are, but i dont look forward to trying to do a lot of stuff at endgame with it the way it is. Anyone thinking BC and sing powers are gonna be hugely helpful in pvp/endgame pve is gonna be disappointed. Tric mines/tholian mines + torpedos will crush those hopes and dreams.
Even if nothings changed ill play rom when it goes live. But -40 power will be a steep curve for a lot of players, just hope its not so steep it makes people go back to Fed/KDF because of it. If players want to play those factions i want it be because they like them, not because of to high a price. I like things balanced so people chose what they like and arent shoe horned into something because its the best option."
TLDR version - GO READ IT ANYHOW! =)
Last edited by jtoney3448; 05-17-2013 at