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Empire Veteran
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 7,486
# 228
05-20-2013, 04:57 PM
Originally Posted by snoggymack22 View Post
So, here's the thing. I keep getting attacked, insulted and called a troll. But what this entire discussion keeps boiling down to is people don't like to turn slow. When questioned about if the ship is ineffective, I get told this:

"They're big and slow, but not really that much tougher than escorts and with less than half the damage output."

So really, what's the deal drunk? Are cruisers that bad at deeps? If so, then I'm all for bumping up their agility.

But I've been led to believe that cruisers are not bad at deeps. That they can do all kinds of neat deeps tricks. And that it's escorts that are hard pressed to keep up with cruisers.

If that's the case, then this ship, which is heavily tac focused, would seem to be ... I guess the word I'm looking for is ... fine?

The entirety of this thread has boiled down to two reasons to buff its turn rate:

1- Personal preference. People don't like turning slow.
2- Cruisers are bad at DEEPs.

I don't find reason 1 to be something that will compel the developers to change the ship. Especially since it has a built in trick (it's own battle cloak) to help overcome that. And isn't there a console set bonus to boost the innate turn-rate?

I would find reason 2 compelling to push for increased agility. But everything I've been told about cruisers is that their DEEPs is pretty good. With a ton of hyperbole mixed into the mix.

The only other thing I can think of is, people just want the excelsior layout with a D'Deridex skin. That's disappointing.
90% of the people in this thread are pve'ers, and i really dont know what their motivation is. all i know is they have a limited frame of reference, and are repeating things pvp'ers say without understanding it as well as they think they do.

if it turns better, its gonna sell beter, its that simple. i dont know, if the ship is good they think people will just buy that and none of the other ships. which is bull, it would still be no escort or sci ship, but a battle cruiser. turning better wile BC'ed makes very little sense, and is worth nothing in an actual battle you are participating in. that console buff does not effect the BASE turn rate, becase nothing like this ever has, so only a measly 2 turn is a drop in the bucket when good battle cruisers have between 25 and 35 after a bunch of turn consoles are used. the d'deridex starting at 5 wont see 20, wile uncloaked.

here are some truths though

1. low turn rates suck in every way. not only is it a quality of life issue, but your ability to direct fire and if your ship cant react at the speed you react is fundamentally aggravating. people dont want the ship, thats the entire reason they want a romulan faction, to aggravate them.

2. its not that cruisers suck at DPS, its that DPS sucks. dps vs spike. 1 of those things is always good, the other is terrible in pvp. cruisers, especially the ones i used to run, did hilarious amounts of DPS, especially when they changed AtB to the AtX system cooldown, and i came up with the 2 AtB cruisers. then rep, embassy console proc heals, and the elite shields happened, and pressure was directly countered to the point were its just pissing in the wind. regardless of how much DPS you produce.

so i dont run my excelsior anymore, but i do run my vorcha, ktinga, kamarang and negvar. why? because they deal front loaded, DHC+torp/BO damage. they can do that because they have a high enough base turn rate that their durability and their levels of spike let them be a unique, and effective ship. the ships to slow or are limited to only pressure damage will never be able to do the effective damage a battle cruiser can deal, even if the fed cruiser is dealing more DPS, according to scoreboards and parcers.

SO, im in this thread complaining because i want to be able to use the d'deridex like my KDF cruisers, because not only is that fun, but its effective. i dont want them to release the d'deridex as a frustrating, aggravating, ineffective ship, with good levels of DPS. because again, DPS and effective damage are 2 different things. apply a DPS ratting to a 10 second period of spike, and then 20 seconds or so of just mostly turret plinking, and your dps score is gonna be bad. but when you spike effectively, that doesn't mater at all. pve is different of course. DPS is what you want, spike just comes in hills and vallies. escorts can still out pressure cruisers in pve though. they are still best at spike and pressure. and can direct it best, with no down time, reacting at the speed the user reacts, and they are a pleasure to use as a result
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