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Republic Veteran
Join Date: May 2013
Posts: 1,463
# 154
03-07-2014, 07:02 PM
Originally Posted by catoblepasbeta View Post
I don't think anyone really wants to play the powerless and moronic Tal Shiar as they are now written. It would be fair to say there's a bit of bitterness on how Cryptic decided to treat the old RSE-style Romulans though.

Cryptic has continuously rewritten the RSE to be more and more cartoonishly evil and stupid, while promoting the Republic as it now is.

Look at what the Romulan situation as Cryptic has developed it:

Prior to New Romulus: No Republic, Obisek's rebels/terrorists are the only resistance movement, and are much darker than current Republic-using thalaron weapons vs civilians, raiding federation space, etc. Tal Shiar is only part of the Romulan armed forces, Sela and Hakeev are not in cahoots, and never share the same screen, much less even have a conversation together. What happens after Sela's abduction is not discussed.

New Romulus: Still no Republic. D'Tan's group are basically a bunch of separatists who are taking advantage of Sela's disappearance to secede. has support of at least some Romulan military elements and D'Tan is courted by the Tal Shiar as a possible replacement for Sela. Still use IRW prefix and RSE uniforms. Obisek gives his support to D'Tan.

Romulan Republic is a huge freedom fighter movement that has existed well before the disappearance of Sela and death of Hakeev. Non Tal Shiar armed forces of the RSE are retconned out, and and Hakeev and Sela are pretty much on the same page right now, with him being her 'right hand man' and his insane iconian/elachii plot setting the agenda for the entire RSE. The RR pretty much supplants the RSE as being 'the' Romulan faction.

Basically the Republic supplanted the RSE pretty much entirely by authorial fiat. The road was completely open for Cryptic to write a Romulan faction if the had wanted to. The only real reference to the Romulans of note post-Sela was 'The Return' which didn't really touch on the subject of the state of the Empire. (but showed that they still had the funds and organization to pursue development of Borg technology) The faction that emerged from the loss of Sela by no means had to be the Republic-and I would expect it to have required far less in the way of retcons and storyline changes.

That's the Romulan faction my loyalty lies with-not the stupid, cartoonish caricature of the Tal Shiar, and not this bizarre Republic that has more in common with the Maquis and the Bajorans than the Romulans-but with the Romulan Star Empire that Cryptic retconned and killed off starting with New Romulus and ending with legacy of Romulus.
First of all, the "old RSE-style Romulans" were in TOS. Something changed between TOS and TNG, and that was the formation of the Tal'Shiar.

Second, the Tal'Shiar is not and never was a part of the Romulan armed forces; they are explicitly stated by numerous sources to be a civilian intelligence agency and secret police; they were an agency of the Romulan Star Empire's government, never affiliated with the Romulan Star Navy, which opposed them frequently.

Third, Sela and Hakeev share the screen in more than one mission, or did you not do the "Mind Games" mission (she seems pretty cozy with Hakeev in this) or the "Cutting the Cord" mission (in which she finally -- finally -- cuts ties with Hakeev, even having a conversation with him to inform him of this decision, but just a bit too late for it to matter), or did you just skip the cut scenes in those missions? What happens after Sela's "abduction" happens after Hakeev is dead/captured (depending on the player's action), and is therefore irrelevant to her relationship with Hakeev.

Fourth, denying that the Republic is a Republic doesn't make it not a Republic; D'Tan was elected and there is a Senate. Even the STO Wiki states that the government of the Republic is "democratic."

Fifth, the RSE (and specifically, the Tal'Shiar) was already experimenting with, and making use of, Borg tech before Sela was carried away by the Iconians (which, by the way, ought to be mentioned in every discussion in which the Republic is condemned for trying to make use of Iconian tech).

Fvillhu s'Tal'Diann (Phi'Tlaru Rihan) Praetor of the Tal'Diann/Tal-Diann
Tal'Diann = KDF-allied Romulan Republic Fleet / Tal-Diann = Fed-allied Romulan Republic Fleet