View Single Post
Join Date: Jun 2012
Posts: 1,845
# 488
03-08-2014, 07:27 AM
Originally Posted by pwecaptainsmirk View Post
Updated the OP Blog.

The 2 Piece Console Set Bonus grants a +2 Turn rate, not the previously mentioned +1

That's a fair sight right there. Certainly more reason to use that set than more tank.

Originally Posted by abystander0 View Post

That was just an example of mitigation (and not a great one, I admit). To completely overcome the heavy power drain, you would need something like the plasmotic leach, emergency power to weapons, Aux2batt, or the Marion duty officer that mitigates weapon drain on directed energy modulation.
While that's great if you're running a beam boat with 8 beams and want to spam FAW, is that really optimal to need that to use the lance effectively? If we have it at 125 that should be a good ground. Although adding all that is terrifying.

With the first model, if power starts at 125, then each shot would drain 25 power (being one fifth of 125), thus putting you at zero at the end of the cycle. Each shot fired in the cycle, would be independent of the other as far as hit, damage, crit, and crit damage calculation is concerned. Power management would be essential to keep the weapon's damage from dropping off too steeply. That includes not firing other energy weapons. Damage for each shot is based off what your power was at the start of the cycle (here that is 125).

The second model would work similar, but because your damage and energy drain are static (keep the drain at 50 for example), you would need to keep your weapon power from hitting zero to maintain fire (5 shots max). Here also, hit, damage, crit, crit damage is calculated separately for each shot.

The first model is more flexible, but would have lower damage per shot than the second model, which has higher damage but the potential to not be able to continue fire due to lack of weapon power. Both could lock you out of firing other weapons, or perhaps just energy weapons.
I am not certain what a fair cooldown (if one is needed) would be good, but I was thinking somewhere in the neighborhood of thirty to forty seconds.

In this respect, heavy engineering capability becomes an asset.
I would accept shutting down other energy weapons to keep the lance from having so much power drop off that the shots become less effective over time. As I see it the narrow firing arc is a trade off for the power.

As for the cooldown if we want this to be the primary weapon then a firing time under a minute has to be the case, I'd say 45 seconds is the sweet spot. That prevents spam but is fast enough that you can set up your strategy around it. Especially if you're not going to give the ship a battle cloak. There's no escape factor, the cloak is purely an opening ambush, so be continuously surprise attacked isn't a factor.

Also........warp 13 plz.
I'm not gonna lie, Innate warp 13= me using the Adapted MACO set

Oh yes, I had forgotten about Prometheus. Good point. I loathed Voyager, and tend to forget things that happened in it.
The Defiant was also in production by the end of the series.

Voyager, Voyager, Voyager. I understand the complaints, but Voyager did have some great high points, and no I'm not talking about the valleys of Seven of Nine's dermoplast body suit.

Having multiple ships for the same cost of having one big one is more efficient for Starfleet from the standpoint that it usually finds itself short of available starships in critical situation. Having a big expensive ship in the wrong place at the wrong time effectively renders that ship meaningless.
I'm not saying they wouldn't build multiple smaller ships for the cost of one, I'm saying that it's not more efficient to dismantle and repurpose the parts from a perfectly viable ship to build more from it. Especially since generally speaking, a Galaxy-X is equal in deterrent force to a few Defiants. That's Starfleet's thinking because there have been plenty of times when they've sent the Enterprise to an area to quell people getting rowdy.

Yes, and the same problems with that would happen here too. Whether or not Starfleet would want to start an arms race wouldn't matter. One would happen anyway, as the Klingon Empire, the Dominion, Romulans (though as of now, they have the Scimitar), or anyone else with the ability to maintain a fleet would see that as a threat, and begin their own super heavy construction, just like in your example. Even though they are at war, the Klingon Empire is currently using pretty standard weapons and tactics. With an arms race, you would see more heavy batlecruisers, and new battleships. (Not this silly "the KDF makes us no money so they don't get anything" mentality Cryptic has, which is a separate discussion.)
The issue is there already is one in effect. The Romulans started it with he Scimitar. They wouldn't start the arms race, but they're not going to sit back and lose one either. We've got running up on a trillion citizens to protect.

And you're right the Avenger and the Mogh are certainly prime examples.

Honestly I'm wondering what a Klingon counter to the G-X would look like. Honestly that's what I'd say the Bortas is.

Starfleet, and the Federation at large, wants to avoid the appearance of being an expansionist military power. It's part of why there was so much flak over calling the Defiant an escort. With something like a dreadnaught, the problem is exacerbated. The Federation doesn't need a symbol of pride or national power.
I'm not saying you're incorrect, but nor does the Federation want to appear weak either.

That said, the Enterprise itself, is a symbol of pride and national power, that's what a Flagship is all about. Look at this great thing that we built. That said I do agree that having one in every player's garage is clearly an acceptable break from reality, as Starfleet certainly wouldn't build an entire fleet of them, but that doesn't mean they wouldn't build a few. One in each major fleet or maybe even wing.

The temptation to use such a weapon would be too great for some officers not to use it. "If you have a 'big stick' you should use it". Remember Benjamin Maxwell from TNG: The wounded? Imagine him with a Galaxy-X. People being what they are, he wouldn't be an isolated case of hate or anger taking the helm.

Also, for not being a battleship, the Pheonix certainly did number on the Cardassians.

You don't need super weapons for strategic deterence, they certainly help, but they are not necessary. What they do is make everyone very nervous, and become a trap, that snares powers in an arms race.
I feel you've nullified your own point here. Every single Federation Starship, is a weapon of mass destruction, every phaser a risk. They've been telling us this since the Original Series, where we had Captain Kirk himself threatening to glass the surface of a planet, where a Captain looking for the fountain of youth gave phasers to communists with longevity.

Look at what Thomas Riker was able to accomplish with a hijacked Defiant.

Any ship can be abused.

But as much as Starfleet is an exploratory agency, they're also the first and last line of defense. They've got to be ready. Worf could kill Jm'pok next year and we'll be able to restore the Khitomer Accords, but we still need to be able to take on the Borg and the Iconians. And Starfleet will still explore. I loved that blog that showed Operation Return in operation with a Starfleet Science ship out at the border of the Delta Quadrant. We can do both.

As for the cloak, I just give it a pass, since I consider the Galaxy-X to be a fish out of water.
It's an outlier.

Which is why I enjoy discussions. Seeing other points of view can allow you to see a bigger picture, or what you have overlooked (like me and the Prometheus).

Temporal mechanics give me a headache.

It's more of a "one gun wonder" in my view, think of it as a really large gunboat with a really large gun. Siege ship, gun boat, or maybe even monitor might have been a better term. It's a 25th century artillery piece.
Siege Ship works for me too. Gun boat rubs against my Navy sensibilities.

That's quite a bit of really good information when you take a look at that archive. I had no idea that existed.
I love Memory Alpha.

For the registry numbers issue, I think that there was no effort to catalog all the canon named ships, so there was no official guide for people to look at that had ship names and registry number. There were a couple of instances where you had ship names showing up in other episodes with different registry numbers, as I recall. The lack of a database for ship names and registry numbers made it hard to designate new ships in later stories. By inflating registry numbers you can dodge that point somewhat. So rather than Starfleet having that many hulls according to registry numbers, I would chalk that up to continuity problems. In universe it could easily be a matter of cancelling construction plans for ships already slated for construction, which would have a designation number. Any new constructions after that would have higher registry numbers. So in theory you could have any number of unrealized projects that eat up those registry numbers, but not actual starships.

But as stated in that information there was never a hard number given, so within reason, any number could be valid.
The Prometheus that I cited is an example of messed up registry numbers. The one on the hull is lower than the one the MSD and the Plaque. It was an issue of a placeholder number vs the actual one. Mike Okuda realized it was too low (the one on the hull is lower than Voyagers), the MSD is the accurate one.

While that's true, I look at them as construction registry numbers, I don't think Starfleet has anywhere near that many cancelled constructions. They have a truly stupendous amount of space to cover just for the Federation and then they're exploring well beyond their own borders. That requires a LOT of hardware.

To me, if they had that many ships available, they would have been pulling everything they could and sending them at max speed to throw into battle. To have ships at your borders would be pointless if they lost the war.
No. The Federation has lots of friends, but also plenty of enemies. You can't just leave yourself open to attack from the Tzenkethi, the Romulans (before they entered the war), the Tholians, the So'na. If it takes a year to get any ship from one side of the Federation to the other you can't just leave one border open and assume that that's going to be fine. If you have the Dominion on one side, and there's a Borg incursion on the other, you have to already have forces in place to deal with that.

Starfleet learned that lesson well, the Borg incursion of 2367 took place when the Federation had a long period of peace (at least from major war) and their deep space programs were in full gear. They could only get 39 starships together to defend the capitol.

That's what annoys me the most. It can't do the one thing that made it awesome in the brief time we saw it.


No kidding, there is so much unrealized potential outside of shooting stuff. In your example after the enemy scatters and leaves, the mission could change to rescue, repair, or resupply or something.
OOOH OOOH OOH OOH (jumping up and down)

Then the rescue mission could turn into a medical ground mission like what was it? Cold Comfort? The Breen mission where you had to help with the medical triage unit and where you met Tran. But in this case it would be like an engine repair mission. Or you have to go hunt down the Orion ships so you can rescue the people they kidnapped into slavery.

The beauty being you wouldn't have the option to get that mission if you don't have the rep.

And I don't know about you, but I'm thinking about things like the Tau Dewa Patrol mission, so these things are still counting towards your percentage. The Tal Shiar mission leads to infiltrating a Tal Shiar base and stopping people from being brainwashed.

And here's another thing. You come across an Orion slaver or Nausicaan raider. Where's their since of self preservation? If they run and then you hunt them down, they know they can't win, so why wouldn't they accept arrest? Two years in a Federation rehab colony and they can be on their way. There are plenty of non warrior races that are good with going to prison versus dying for nothing.
Yes I support This

"Rise like Lions after slumber, In unvanquishable number, Shake your chains to earth like dew, Which in sleep had fallen on you-Ye are many they are few"