What is OP about Kling Space PVP?
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Join Date: Dec 2007
02-19-2010, 02:41 AM
Originally Posted by
Going to try and take a stab at this;
It's not that Klingon's are actually overpowered (except for maybe t1). It's just the design of the game makes Klingon's appear overpowerd because the situations in which most players will end up pvping greatly favor the Klingon style of play.
What do I mean?
Most players will be PvPing in random groups put together by the PvP que system. - Random groups greatly favor the Klingon advantage of cloak and unleash hell much more-so than the fed style of having to ball up and heal chain etc.
Most players will not know how to PvP well. - PvPing from a group that is based off 'everyone unclock and shoot him' is easier to execute at a basic level than trying to counter everyone opening fire on one person.
Most players tend to rush off into the fray after entering a match. - Fed PvP play requires everyone to form up together first off before attempting any action, Klingon players with cloak can warpoff to their hearts content and worry about forming together later.
Also a few PvP gameplay issues not directly related to Klingons at all greatly hamper Federation random teams.
The biggest of these is no auto-teaming. Fed groups to stand a chance in PvP need to be set in a team where heals can be thrown toward the Klingon's called target immediatly. What happens in most matches however is some Fed players will warp off before anyone can even attempt to team up, and once they have warped off initially the fed's chance of victory has gont down dramatically. Simple auto-teaming players in PvP (regardless of a person auto-team settings) will go a long way toward making PvP feel more balanced.
This is a big one;
A lot of the more skilled Fed PvP players after losing badly over and over due to being teamed with people who simply refuse to try and work together have given up and gone to the Klingon side. It's simply no fun to lose 15-0 or 15-1 repeatidly when people refuse to stcik at spawn long enough to let you send out team invites, and even when you do invite refuse to follow simply direction and warp off alone.The prevailing feeling is that by going over to the Klingon side we will stand a real shot in a far larget % of the games simply because being, A; there are less stupid players, and B; as basic level PvP doesn't require as much coordination. (Not saying Klingon's dnt have to owrk together just as much at the high end, simply that at the low end Klingons can function on a winnable level with less complex coordination)
I'm leveling an alt purely to PvP with;
I've played In a fed PvP group (all randoms, but we found each other and stuck together for several hours) that worked well together, and won probably 80% of our matches. We all went in as a team, balled up, and figured out a basic strategy ahead of time to try and counter the Klingon inital alpha strike. (Nothing complex, just targeted player throws full pwoer to engines and evasives away to drag Klingon pursuers through our ball while we atempt to heal them as long as possible)
But then I took the same character out agian the next day (full support/heal setup t2 sci vessel) and never had a match that was even remotly close. Despite my repated attempts I just couldn't get anyone else to form up in a basic defencive setup, much less get themto understand the basics of trying to survive the Klingon alpha strike. - And we stood no chance.
Basically a Fed PvP group requires more fundamentals to function on a basic competative level, yet due the the natured of PvP as a playstyle for Fed vs Klinsons, Klingon players will nearly always have a much stronger grasp on these basics. If we can't get the Fed players even on a team together, how will we ever have a chance to keep the Fed player Klingons initially target alive?
So what is the result? I (as another of my friends has previously) made a Klingon to PvP with. Where I know I'll at least stand a chance in a random group most times, and even when I lose we wont be blown out by 3 or more times our score. - Thus the Fed side loses another compitent player and the ratio of compitent/incompitent gets worse.
So what do I suggest?
First as I stated earlier, automatic auto-teaming. No way around this, if you're in a PvP match you're on a team together. Teams are absolutely vital to standing a chance, without them you cant target heals/etc viabley, not nor can you strategise/call targets/etc.
Second, fed players need a place to re-group after all being killed without having to worry about being picked off one by one before they can form up. Respawn players in an area that is PvP immune for 30 seconds after the last person was killed. Just enough time to get respawned and in formation again.
(T1 only) Increase handling of Fed starter ship. There is simply no way for feds to compete at t1. Cloak, massive manuverability, and universal BO slots. (+ generally a big equipment advantage) means in T1 a single Klingon can often beat serverl Fed players at once. I'm not saying give them BoP manuverability, not at all, but make the Fed starter ship handle like their basic Science vessel. In t1 Fed ships don't have any of their advantaged that counter their disadvantages yet. And In this tier fed players lose so bad they will likely give up on PvP for good if they dont know better,
Again, not saying Klingon's are actually OP, just that the game makes them appear to be. Besides the T1 fed starter ship I don't feel the actual balance needs tweaking at all, just a few basics that decided how players ar able to interact and work as a team.
This sums alot of it up pretty well. Here lately I have been doing alot more of the Kerat war zone because as a fed you either find Klingons on the map or there is the chance of getting lumped into the Klingon side and fighting the other feds.
My observation is that most feds are not even remotely built for PVP. Some don't even take Sci Team as a default BO skill. Not because they are stupid but because they PVE first and you get by with more in PVE then PVP. I find myself killing fellow feds one right after the other in that instance alot of times for that reason. I leveled up thru PVP from LTC-RA5 then PVE'd after so my build has had to suffer the cloaked alpha followed by VM and FBP etc...I understand the counters.
The last thing that I think effects this is the shear amount of trash talking some klingons do about how obviously wonderfull they are vs these same feds that haven't figured PVP out comming to that side of the game so late. I have run into my fair share of morons both sides that think they are much better then they really are. Should they get their hands held or a hug after a 15-0 defeat no, but if we want better PVP across the board I think they do need to be led in the right direction.
I was sort of lucky leveling up with the first wave of Klingons that got to BG5, I never waited for a que. These guys at RA5 don't get nearly the practice or experience now because all the BG5's have stopped playing now due to the lack of content so it's tough for them to get any better.