A Shield Guide - Comparisons and Charts
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Join Date: Dec 2007
01-04-2011, 03:45 AM
Sorry if you find my way of quoting harder to read but I find using quotation marks much easier and it feels more correct as well.
"Shield damage Reduction and Hull Resistance work differently. Hull Resistance Modifiers have diminishing returns. Shield damage reduction does not."
How do we know this? Have we been told? Have we tested? Sorry if I missed it but all in game data I have seems to say they are the same. Shield damage reduction in game is called resistance buff. When I hover over the skill on the bar is says "Shield Damage Resistance". When I click the full description it says "Shield Damage Resistance Buff" This lead me to believe damage reduction is just another name for resistance. How do we know shields don't have diminishing returns? I was basing all my ideas on that shields have damage resistance like hull. Can you please show me a source to prove me wrong. I really thought shields had resistance in the same way as hull based on the in game info.
As for Attack Pattern Beta so you're basically saying anything in game that says - to all resistance has zero impact on shield resistance? That's very misleading. How are we meant to know this from in game data? Are you sure it has no impact on shield resistance?
" Oh, you are talking about Bridge Officer or Captain abilities, not skills.
Rotate Shield Frequency gives you 134.4 shield hit points per second no matter what kind of shield you use. So Regenerative Shields have no additional advantage here, Covariants get just as much out of this as Regenerative or Regular or Resilient Shields. All this do is reducing the difference between regenerative and covariant shield's regeneration."
Sorry for some of the confusion on skills. I just called anything in the bar a skill no matter the source.
As for what you said it depends on the stacking order. Rotate Shield Frequency & Transfer Shields add to shield regeneration. What if the 14%consules boost this regeneration of that as well? Even if it doesn't, it doesn't help Covariants as much.
. " All this do is reducing the difference between regenerative and covariant shield's regeneration."
is incorrect. What it does is help cross the over the line from being able to tank or not. The point of a regen setup is to tank the incoming DPS indefinitely. With a regen setup you can either tank or you cannot, it doesn't work in the same way as buffer Covariants. The point of a regen setup it to get the tankable DPS high enough to make your buffer mostly not needed apart from to survive Alpha strikes.
A Covariants with extra regen is still going to run out of buffer sooner or later as the regen is so low as to be useless. While with a regen setup all those little regens add up to a lot so you get to a point when you can tank indefinitely.
Or another way to put it the Covariants might lasts 50seconds but the regen setup lasts indefinitely as the incoming DPS is less than the regen tankable DPS. What I am trying to say is you have drawn up a nice graph and charts but not looked at the main advantage of regen setups. How can you have a comparison of which is better without looking at how much DPS a regen setup can tank? without looking at how long a regen setup tanks? We haven't looked at the numbers, what if a maxed out regen tank can tank 8000 or 12000 dps? Then it could tank 2 or 3 Escorts. Not that I am saying it is that high, just a fair comparison needs to look at how much a regen setup can tank.
I have a nice Excel spreadsheet that I use in Eve online. You put in the buffer tank numbers, put in the regen numbers then it shows you how long both last against 2000 incoming DPS, 2500 incoming DPS, 3000 incoming DPS and so on. That way we can do a real nice comparison of Covariants shields against regen shields and add in armor tanking. I would love to do that and truly see mathematically which of the 3 is best.
We can assume 1 Escort does 4000dps. 2 Escorts do 8000 dps and see which setups lasts longer. The problem is I need more accurate regen numbers
" As I said, if you count your shield regeneration four times, you need to count your shield capacity twice, too. After all, you can distribute your shield capacity between shields, too. A Covariant shield has more shield points to distribute, a Regenerative Shield restores more shield points."
Yes but you can only use up to 1 on console to boost hitpoints and distribute those hitpoints. But you can add up to 4 consoles that boost HP regen and distribute the extra regen from 4 sides. Take a small PvP match where your front shields get hit. The regen setup has up to 4 regen console which can distribute all 4 sides into the front shields. Then due to the 4 console's he gets far more hitpoints back to re-distribute then the typical buffer Covariants setup. From my point of view a regen setup has more hitpoints to distribute.
" There aren't any skills that increase your shield regeneration. The Ship Captain skills improve your shield capacity."
Rotate Shield Frequency & Transfer Shields both add to shield regeneration but I have no idea how this stacks with shield regen consoles. Emergency power to shields effectively gives you around 50 shields points per facing per second over 30seconds.OK it's all arrives in 1 second but it's still a regular hitpoint boost. You add all those up with HP regen and shield distribute and put them in a formula I posted before then you can see how many ships a regen setup can tank. Surly that will be useful for your comparison?. What if a Covariants buffer setup can only tank 1 ship and a regen setup can tank 2 or 3 ships in PvP? Would you still say a Covariants buffer is better? Perhaps a Covariants still is better, but we need to look at the data not just assuming a Covariant is better.
EDIT: As for your graphs. How long does it take a Borg regen shield with x4 14% regen consoles to catch up to the buffer of the best Covariants shield with the 35% shield buffer consoles?
It would be nice to see an all out buffer setup compared to an all out regen setup. Is it still 50 seconds?
EDIT2: Could you tell me how much regen a Borg shield with x4, 14% shield regen consuls has at both 100 and 125 power? Are we guessing at how this all stacks or has kit been proven anywhere? Even if its guess work it will still be usefull.
EDIT3: I have been typing 14% shield recharge throughout my posts. I believe the best crafting console is only 13%.