Thread: The Wings
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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 33
01-05-2011, 05:49 AM
Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
To the point of contradiction between 2 canon facts: there is no way to determine wich one of them is "true" canon and wich one not, they are both and those are "canon failures". Actually there are A LOT of them. But thats where the fun begins, by, for eample, beeing creative and find logical explanations why they both could be true.
Or why one of them has to be dismissed because it was obviously an off-screen f..k-up. You can explain a lot (believe me, I'm good at finding "excuses"), but you should not try to explain everything as you'll just end up hurting the overall consistency of the setting more than you would by just a simple retcon.

Scaling issues have been a long-standing problem in Trek. The Defiant has the very same problems as the Birds-of-Prey, with on-screen evidence placing her at anything between 50 and 200 meters. They even had two different MSD layouts for this ship! By your logic this would mean there have to be several different Defiant classes?
It is because of this kind of stuff that I simply say "acknowledge the fail of the creators and let's move on".

Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
I mean, as an oposite, look at the completly scrwed Star Wars canon. Nothing make sense, its pure chaos because Lucas sees every game and every Novel as "canon", of course including everything released before the preqeuls, and including any stiupid "technical data". Not even prequels and "original" movies work together, but including everything else, there is NO base for any disucussion.
I'm honestly surprised you see it that way. It is because every game and every novel is canon and every successive author is held responsible to stick to what was established before that Star Wars canon is much less chaotic than Trek. There still are discussions, but by and large the facts are much clearer because in SW there's actually officials tasked with cleaning up the mess and a proper canon policy so you actually know what really is a cold, hard fact. As opposed to Trek that currently cannot even decide whether TAS is canon or not.

Something like the BoP debate would be unthinkable in Star Wars, so I don't see how that could be more chaotic. If Trek had half this consistency, we'd not only know the size of this ship but also had proper designations, crew numbers, armaments, engine specs and maybe even deckplans because a ship as famous as this surely would've showed up in a canon tech manual. As detailed as something like this.

Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
Yes thats basicly it. (although, I never needet an explanation for that. Within an 40 years old franchise i thing we should be able to simply accept some things...)
Exactly. I was perfectly okay to accept the ridge difference as what it was - an off-screen budget limitation in terms of masks. All they'd have to do was ignore it or say it was a retcon, but nooo.
That said, the explanation in the old P&P books (in that the "Klingons" encountered in TOS were actually hybrids existing alongside pureblood ridged Klinks) was so much better than the ridiculous medibabble from ENT, as cool as that episode was.

Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
I dont understand...., Starfleet command HAS the K'Vort?????
The 3rd game has it, yes, as a "destroyer" variant of the B'rel "frigate". It actually still is larger, but only by 20 percent - which I still deem believable as the general design wouldn't explode out of shape in that case. We've seen such size increases in real life, too - just not by a factor of 5.

Originally Posted by FirstAngelus View Post
But I dont see why the- proven- existence of the K'Vort should hurt your view. The smaller version, of course, exists too, i would never doupt that. I dont see any need for that disagreement in the first place.
Because I dislike inconsistency. The K'vort looks exactly the same as the B'rel, so it should be a relative - not a completely different ship in a completely different size category that just happens to look exactly the same, with 10 meter wide windows and all that crap that comes with just scaling the entire thing up.

I'd have loved to see the K'vort become the official designation for what currently is the "Refit-B'rel", for example. A more modern class of a proven design, utilizing the same general hull with different interiors. Because that just makes sense for the resource-mindful Klingons.

Or, to put it in a visual explanation: I just never want to see this sh*t happen.

Birds-of-Prey are a category of their own. A cruiser being in them makes the entire line of ships as well as their intended role totally inconsistent and invalidates several lines we've heard on-screen.
"Klingon Bird-of-Prey decloaking!" - Geez, Chekov, don't you think you should point out whether it's a frigate or a battlecruiser? Might be more important than the shape!