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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 112
01-19-2011, 08:52 PM
Originally Posted by Valias
I know what it's supposed to say - but if a comparison to nazis is not part of it, why include the term? As you said, it is to insult or ridicule the other person, so it specifically relies on the negativity that comes with the word and its meaning.

Whether you're calling someone a grammar nazi or claim that "he's as strict as a nazi when it comes to grammar" is the same thing - thus Godwin's Law applies to both.
Frankly I think Godwin's law is for political or social debates/arguments, Grammar-Nazi is just an insult because Nazis are bad and perceived as really strict from the Aryan thing and it's shorter and easier to say than obsessive. Like the Church of England bishops who called the General Synod fascist for allowing women bishops, or Obama being called a Nazi for healthcare, that's a Godwin, they're trying to call the Synod and Obama evil like the Nazis, who were evil because of their crimes, so their actions are being compared to Nazi crimes, while you were just being called stuck up basically in a lazy manner and one that is admittedly abusive of history. Anyway let's leave the Godwin thing, I think it's overused others think it's applicable to any use of the word Nazi.

Originally Posted by Valias
So let me get this straight - you take a few negligible engine-based limitations as a reason to dispute the Great Hall's status, despite it clearly being labeled as such? And not even that, now it's supposed to be "somewhere" with a "small military add-on", despite clearly being in the midst of the capital city and containing the entire High Council?
Alright to explain better take the courtyard, if I were doing it you'd beam into the the courtyard and be able to walk into greathall or a barracks(boffs, ground gear) or a war ministry building for gettings ships and ship equipment, and something like feasting hall for promotion ceremonies and buying the "blackmarket" gear. If I were completely unlimited you'd be beaming around a city going to these places from transporter pads.
As Cryptic was limited in what they could do(probably more by time though than engine considering the cities in CO) the greathall must compact all those things into one so it's not exclusively military but also serves a political, ceremonial and relaxation functions. I know the show has Klingons being often one dimensional and at the best of the times two, but I doubt even Klingons would have the political heads of their Empire hanging around in a military base all the time. They would likely be in a something like a Klingon parliament building, but being Klingon there would be very heavy security which could take the form of the military "add on" in the greathall, so the greathall could actually be more politically oriented than military if it could be fully fleshed out. Sort of like it's a Parliament with a War Ministry and it's security force attached that's then also connected to feasting hall. I also certainly didn't mean it's just "somewhere" on Qo'nos but with my manner of wording things I can see how you viewed it like that, I meant that it's a place that isn't a mil base but some hybrid.

This is different from ESD which is a military base just with a diplomatic attachment and probably a scientific one too along with the leisure facilities for everyone to chill at.

Originally Posted by Valias
Quite a paradox, to claim that it is Trek to take the feeling of the show out of the game. Also, creativity and grasping at straws just because you want to usurp Orion uniqueness are two different things.
That depends on if something feels Trek to a person because it obsessively sticks to what is on screen, or the sentiments of Trek about open mindedness, equality etc. For you Trek appears to be more about "was a Klingon ever seen on screen infatuated with elements of another culture", than my "is it possible a Klingon could become infatuated with elements of another culture?". You go for sticking to scripts where as I go for whether something can fit the sentiments,ideals, the spirit of Trek and if it's plausible in Trek.

You've frankly lost me on the grasping at straws, is it really that hard to conceive there are Klingons who are about more than "honour, blood, waaaaghhhh(warhammer 40k ref)", and maybe are fans of Orion or other races clothing, even if it's not warlike gear maybe even just because it's skimpyness is so different from normal klingon stuff. Take General Chang and Chancellor Gorkon, despite Chang being a warmonger he comes across as a warrior poet compared to later Klingons being Orks, and Gorkon was very civil. Maybe there are Klingons who view that past as the end of a golden age, have tired of continual fussing over "honour" and seek to be more cultured by adopting things from all over and maybe coming up with Klingon variations. Not saying Klingons shouldn't be honour bound warriors, but that honour bound warriors can be open minded and don't need so much brutality.

It's not me grasping at straws, but you running around trying to shut every door.

Originally Posted by Valias
All this talk just makes me think it was a mistake to give the Klingon faction the Alien CharGen in the first place, considering that all it does is serve as a disruption for the style we know from the shows. Be it because it is abused to play Romulans and Humans, or because now there's a drive to "steal" what makes Orion culture visually distinctive.

KDF got way too many species. Unfortunately it is far too late to roll back this mistake now.
And here we come to what you likely really care about, probably not preserving Orion uniqueness but maintaining perceived KDF uniformity for your own personal "immersion". The thing is opening up the Orion outfits is no more theft of Orion culture than an Englishwoman wearing a qipao is stealing Chinese culture, she's wearing Chinese culture, when someone sees her in it, they know she's at least a fan of that small part of Chinese culture not that she's trying to usurp it.

So then if an Englishwoman wants to wear a qipao is she trying to steal Chinese culture?

Hmmm I've got a great idea for a few foundry episodes now, thanks!