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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 116
01-21-2011, 12:38 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
It's not the same, actually. Starfleet Vulcans are part of Starfleet, of course they wear the same clothing. Non-Starfleet Vulcans (which we do not have in STO) would actually wear different stuff, as you can see in several ENT, TOS and TNG episodes.
The Orions are in the KDF though, we can say they're allied and really not in it, but I think it's stretching. Do the Vulcans have unique off duty clothes? Can't really find anything on it and used my char slots, if they don't then that's another thing.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Really now? I doubt that.
Since for however many months only the Orions have been able to wear it, I'm certain all but new players will, call it Orion in the editor even they will.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
More like 60%. Again, see ESD how people dress up their females.
I rarely ever see much more than two dozen people on Qo'nos, maybe half are females, even with a bit over half of them wearing the bikini that isn't changing much, and frankly I very much doubt there'd be a rush to play KDF because they all get bikinis, and even now all Orion females don't wear bikinis, most maybe but not all.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
And on the Trek front, for we would loose the atmosphere Qo'noS managed to retain so far. Again: Is it really necessary to copy the whacky look of Starfleet? Can't we have one faction that looks like it did in the shows?
No you would lose the atmosphere, the greathall still looks Klingons, there's still going to be lots of Klingon NPCs, klingon music. In a quick beam down early hours to Qo'nos I saw 6 aliens, 5 klingon(2 lib borg), 2 joined trill(with mine 3), 5 orions(2 of them not even wearing a single bit of bikini), 2 Leatheans and a Nausicaan.
Now later in the day I would expect to see more orions and aliens proportionally, but even when I've flown through space infoing every captain Klingons are still around a quarter of the numbers, sometimes Orions have been half of what I see, but so have Klingons. The Empire is hardly overrun by dirty furriners.
The Empire of the shows is also not the Empire of this game, a long time has passed.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
No. If you dress like a slave then you will be treated like a slave. If you do it voluntarily, something's wrong with your sense of honor. It's as simple as that. Don't you think this would have repercussions on how other Klingons deal with you?
Did you watch ENT? The STO female Orions seem to be much more like the ones who tried to take over the Enterprise there, than actual slave girls. Probably some Orion females are actual slaves and not spies/saboteurs, but the issue is left muddied from ENT. Having seen female Orions in STO ordering around male NPCs I'm going with ENTs interpretation of them being true in STO.

Now if a Klingon thinks there is something wrong with the character's sense of honour, then they should stop being a coward, say so and accept the consequences, there'll be repercussions alright...for them. See it's not hard to think through this kind of thing if you're at least willing to try.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
And just having "some" backstory doesn't make it more believable. You just can't justify everything, and sometimes trying to do so is actually more facepalm-worthy than just rolling without any excuse at all.
I can't justify absolutely everything there is, but I can justify this, just never to you for no matter what is said you aren't going to change your opinion on it unless a new Trek series was released and we saw a klingon in a bikini(Orion/Earth w/e) or fine silk dress.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Which I think is necessary. Look, there's only one of two ways here:
A) achieve total freedom in customization
B) preserve the style of the faction and the atmosphere of the game
C) You learn to tolerate and ignore things like most other people manage when they come across something that bugs them? If I can deal with the silly characters made in ****, that terrible "The Core" film, and 3 foot tall aliens here so can you.
D) Start up that old campaign to get choose what other peoples uniforms appear as.
E) Campaign to get "roleplay" instances added that you have to tick a box in options to visit and where everyone at least wears the STO uniforms and Klingon battlegear, might be possible might not.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
You can only go one way. They are not compatible. Almost every player doesn't care about making his or her character fit into the setting, instead going by what he or she thinks is cool or sexy based on their respective preference as a 21st century Human. This game is not about 21st century Humans, and if you let people dress however they want you're sacrificing the atmosphere of the show. You're going to loose the "Trek". Might as well play Second Life or whatever.
More like some don't care about fitting the setting, and some don't care about fitting your vision of the setting and why should they? Also seriously "by what he or she thinks is cool or sexy based on their respective preference as a 21st century Human", are they supposed to go by their preference as an imaginative 25th century human? All ST springs from the minds of 20th and 21st century humans, that kind of demand on people is a bit much don't you think.
Second Life might actually be a good fit for you if want "immersion" and "atmosphere" with it's Trek roleplayers. Because here you'll never really have the atmosphere of the show, such rigidity just isn't for most people.
Well you could also get a group that roleplays on each other's bridges with properly dressed boffs, a dose of atmosphere for you, a dose of fun harmless fun for everyone else.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Maybe you should take a look at STO's faction page.
Which bit, the bit where the Klingon talks about allies? That goes against me how? Oh no the Klingons are in charge of the alliance and conquered the Gorn, so xenophobic! Clearly my argument is disproved... or not. If the Orions/Letheans/Nausicaans attempted to withdraw from the alliance, they'd probably get attacked but that's not uncommon in Earth wars so doesn't prove anything.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Both, in a way. Everyone expects the motions, the intent on the other hand matters to the ones that believe in tradition and honour.
Right and the ones to whom intent matters most, won't really be too bothered by what you wear or if you screw up a ritual a little, the others you can have a backstory of having sucessfully challenged warding off others from trying to disparage you for trivialities. Or perhaps in the 20 or so years the Klingons were allied with Feds, and 15 or so Klingons with Orions like I said before, a countercultural movement has sprung up, and perhaps someone who's risen to a powerful position in a notable greathouse is in this movement.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
Heh. I see this kind or justification pop up every single time when such a topic is discussed. And I don't buy it. Sure, I can see why some people absolutely want to play the special snowflake and the Mary Sue that can achieve everything and is so awesome the whole galaxy loves him/her, but in the end this is an MMO, and other player characters need to be taken into consideration as well.


"If everyone is special, nobody is."

I'm quite happy with my - so I believe - interesting and believable characters without the need to make them stand out of the crowd. You can be unique without being a Picard, a Kirk or a Worf. Every person has his own story, his own struggle. You don't need to have the entire galaxy know of it to make it exciting.

Actually as an MMO pretty much everyone is a Mary Sue, it tends to take either BIG raids or mass world pvp to avoid that and even then. How many ships have you destroyed? People killed?
Loads of video game characters are thus "Mary Sues" a term I feel is even more overused than Godwin's Law. In the Halo series Master Chief is pretty much the saviour of humanity and the galaxy, the covenant split was required to win but he did save all life in the Galaxy more than once. People like being amazing heroes, that's fine if you prefer being like Captain Tryla Scott, but I'm betting most people want to be like Picard.
I actually don't think wearing funny outfits would make a character a Mary Sue, having determind that no not everyone loves for them and they probably have to go that extra mile to prove themselves, rather than everything falling easily into their laps.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Valias
"If everyone is special, nobody is."
Oh well that's non single player games for you, not much of a big deal and with STO's instancing it's much less of a problem than in other games, I won't ever see you stopping the Devidians and you won't see me doing it, unlike some quest chain in WoW that doesn't end in a dungeon run.