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Lt. Commander
Join Date: Dec 2007
Posts: 120
# 17
01-24-2011, 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
As I recall noone propsed that the KDF should become the Vermiform appendix of the Federation [...]
But this is what this idea would lead to. I mean, come on, you've seen how STO development has progressed in the past year. How do you think a solution like this would be implemented? You'd have one group of Klingons limited to what they have now, and you'd have another group of Klingons limited to that and a number of unchanged Fed missions. The end result will inevitably be that "Fed-Klinks" will become more popular due to the additional content, and I just do not believe that things like these should influence a player's decision whether or not he'd have his character work for Starfleet if given the choice. You end up penalizing those players who would want their characters to stay loyal to the Chancellor.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
But cooperation where it makes sense ouside of Gamma Orionis, for example in Cardassian Space kicking some True Way butt is not something beyond the Klingons, or saving DS9 from them. [...]
You mean in addition to the ongoing war? Of course, this is an option, but in that case the war really would become a joke. Players would alterate between helping Starfleet and fighting them from hour to hour. A total loss of consistency.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
Again, there seems to be a serious misunderstanding there. You said traitors would have more content. Those would not be the characters, those would be the players.
Ah! Now I see what you mean. In that case I apologize, as it really was not meant towards the players. Yet you have to differentiate between the characters on some level, as every player has generally access to everything in STO. It is the characters that are limited due to their allegiance - currently, only Starfleet characters have access to Starfleet content, and only Klingon characters have access to Klingon content, even if you have a player having characters in both factions (like me).

I hope this clears it up and explains why I am referring to the characters, as only characters can betray their faction, not the players. Even if you feel a strong connection to it (for example I often say "we" when I am talking about the Klingon playerbase, even if only 50% of my characters are actually KDF).

Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
What saddens me is that you call the actions of people like B'vat "mainstream" while you call people who would fight against dishonorable conduct "traitors".
By this I'm going by NPC comments (including the generic NPCs), storyline snippets and the faction explanation on the website. In my opinion this is the most accurate representation of the current mainstream Klingon mindset as we simply have no other indicators, aside from the exceptions you pointed out.

And honestly, it is easy to understand why the Klingons feel that way, if you combine their innate aggression and honor- / supremacy-concerned mindset with what happened during the past couple years in the Path to 2409. Relationships between the Federation and the Klingon Empire have deteriorated progressively, they didn't switch from "amicable" to "hostile" overnight.
I think Cryptic did a rather good job at explaining why things went how they did, and we've seen the Klingon Empire attack the Federation for far less and for way less important reasons in DS9.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
It seems that you can only imagine that there would only be people on the Klingon side who forget the deep connection between two allies that fought together for many years against a common foe. As was seen in the Dominion War. Klingons can have very long memories and remember who their freinds are.
There are also few Klingons who die of old age, and it is rather plausible that the majority of warriors in the KDF are ones who have not fought in the Dominion War whilst the new wave of young Klingons is eager to battle, finding far more excitement in the old stories about Klingon-Federation conflict than peace with a culture that does not understand the focal point of Klingon identity, whereas some old Klingons might simply relish a chance for honorable trial against someone they fought alongside once. That said, I greatly recommend this article for further explanation - an excerpt from a (sadly unreleased) Decipher RPG Sourcebook on the Klingon Empire.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
Those people would try to at the very least find ways to help their friends wherever they can despite difficult circumstances.
Which is probably how you can explain the strong influx of Starfleet Klingon characters in STO. A House assisting Starfleet in a time of war and without approval from the High Council (as is the case for Omega Leonis), however, will soon find itself shamed and discommendated.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
[...] so might Orions who are not alligned with the Syndicate.
I do not think there are Orions not aligned with the Syndicate. They have no reason not to, considering it is the single organization in the galaxy most suited to care for their physical and psychological needs (whilst embracing their culture and any personal skills) and Orions are basically born into a web of crime. Additionally, Orions keep a pretty strong enmity towards the Federation that has persisted for centuries due to Starfleet continuously locking down Syndicate operations and the UFP having basically taken over the majority of Orion-influenced space by means of diplomacy and trade agreements, throwing the Orions out of business.

Quote:
Originally Posted by mister_dee
It wouls also make a lot more sense to have those missions than to have a Gorn in Gre'thor don't you think? But I know this is impossible given what limited resources are available for such endeavors.
Sadly! I have expressed a wish to see a few unique species-exclusive missions several times. Even a set of simple repeatable "grind" missions* a la Pi Canis would be something to set them apart content-wise, but I too do not see that happening.

*: Examples ->
Orions: smuggle weapons through a Starfleet blockade, kidnap civilians or soldiers for the slave market
Gorn: reclaim an ancestral world occupied by Federation "graverobbers" (archaeologists), advance onto an important UFP stronghold ("KDF meatshields")
Nausicaans: lay traps for civilian freighter convoys, raid a science outpost and steal some important tech plans or equipment